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 Post subject: Investing
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:51 pm 
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Does anyone here have any investments? Stocks mainly?

I'm almost 18 and that day im opening a TSFA(Tax Free Savings Account) and buying Stocks.

Im really interested in this company called FNX mining, it's a canadian company and last time i checked they had 0 Debt and some cash on hand. They seem very under-valued, They used to be at 4$ then went up to 9 now have gone back down to 5-6.

I just checked finance google, and they're at 7.39

The're peak in 2007 was 37$

Also Teck cominco, now,teck resources. Holy $h1t!! my moms stupid FA ruined my chance! lol I wanted to buy some shares in teck cominco while they were at 4$ through my moms account and he told me, don't worry nothing will happen in 6 months....

they're now at 20$ With a 3000 dollar investment, 750 shares, IT would now be worth 15000$!!! I could have made 12 thousand fv(k dollars!!!

But w/e nothing i can do about that, exept learn from it.

Anyone else here like investing?

btw, i don't want people saying, ohh don't invest you'll loose all your money! or that investing is gambling....

Before you post something like that^^ read The Intelligent Investor by Benjamin Graham.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:52 am 
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You can't time the market. The best strategy is to pick an index fund of some sort and invest in it regularly long term. I wouldn't put much money in a single company.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:17 am 
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I've also read and been told you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket, and spread your investment.

I've been toying with the idea for a while now. I was also all set to take up some day-trading and try and take advantage of the banks turmoil. It looked fun but I took some advise from a wise old man and i'm still just watching and learning. I was mainly looking into longer term investments though. Then, my grandad, who makes good money doing it (most of the time) told me the following, in his relaxed and patient Corleone style drawl (we call him 'the old don').

He said, "The worst thing that can happen to you is, you invest [1 million dollars], and make [1 million dollars]. That would be tragic. The best thing that can happen to you is, you invest, and you get stung. It's the only way you will learn anything."

Wise words from a wise man.

Incidentally i've dabbled in property before (have one property I rent out). The first time I got my feet wet, I bought and sold a house with a friend (training partner, actually). 'The Old Don' warned me the market was due to crash, big time. He was very insistant. This was in 2006/2007. I didn't take his advice and we done well out of it. he was still right though, just a little off with the timing, which takes me to Ironmans other point - you can't time the market.

You need to stop yourself getting too excited as it can cloud your judgement. If something appears TOO simple, there's probably a lot more to it. NOthing is as simple as it appears. If there's on thing i've learned so far in many aspects of life, it's that. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

KPj


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:44 am 
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Am I the only one who views stocks, bonds, mutual funds and all that jazz as sort of the lowest point of human civilization? I've always had this mentality that it just epitomizes everything that is wrong with our society...but on that note...you can make a lot of money if you're good, so if you're willing to put in the time I'd say go for it ;). I had a buddy that basically became so good he didn't have to work a job, just traded.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:57 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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Guess that depends if you're a capatilist... or a communist....

Sorry bad joke. That's my dads influence. He refers to anyone that doesn't want to work 20 hours a day as a communist.

On a serious note though - what's bad about it? I found your statement to be quite bizarre.... I don't get why anyone would consider it to be bad, or, "the lowest point of human civilisation" - that's a bit extreme. All you're really buying is a % of a business. I don't see it as much different from buying a property. Out of curiousity, where woud you categorise drug dealing/human trafficking/prostitution ?

In saying that, people (well - investors) generally class 'day traders' as scum bags. I never actually done that though so my hands are clean (although there's nothing illegal about it).

KPj


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:28 am 
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At face value there is nothing wrong with trading shares in companies. The problem is that the whole industry is corupt. The regulators are there to ensure that those with power and wealth continue to accumulate power and wealth at the expense of those without. Day trading is for suckers. You may think you are above it all but in the end, you're still a small fish being fattened for the kill. The sharks are out there for you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:50 am 
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Yeah but if we're talking about Mr Joe Average with a full time Job, wife and kids (or not) trying to use extra money they have wisely (well - sticking it under your matress could be considered the safest thing to do!). You won't get much, if any corruption at that level, but even then, there's corruption to some extent in most things. Property, too. Before the crash you could get a mortgage for anything if you knew the right person (over here, some people still can). If you don't know the right people you're sort of screwed. Estate agents were very corrupt - if you generalise, anyway.

If you try and make a living out of day trading then, I agree, it's for suckers. It comes down to the quick win mentality that fails in most things, I think.

At the end of the day, though, there's nothing wrong with trying to make some extra cash (although some people seem to frown upon it).

KPj


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:41 am 
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Rucifer wrote:
Am I the only one who views stocks, bonds, mutual funds and all that jazz as sort of the lowest point of human civilization? I've always had this mentality that it just epitomizes everything that is wrong with our society...but on that note...you can make a lot of money if you're good, so if you're willing to put in the time I'd say go for it ;). I had a buddy that basically became so good he didn't have to work a job, just traded.


You understand without the stock market the computer you're typing on and the internet we are exchanging ideas on would probably not be available to you correct? As no one would have bothered to develop it. No such thing as a free lunch


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:07 am 
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KPj wrote:
Out of curiousity, where woud you categorise prostitution ?


don't hate, I gotta make money somehow


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:10 am 
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frigginwizard wrote:
don't hate, I gotta make money somehow


:lol: :lol: My bad.

KPj


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:23 am 
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Money is good, the richest people in the world are also some of the nicest.
Bill gates, Warren Buffet.

Also I forgot to mention I was thinking about getting a dividend mutual fund, or a ETF, I can't decide on which one to get though.

Also If it wasn't for Investing, mass production our standard of living would probably be $h1t compared to what it is now.

All of those rich people who are corrupt and are assholes, would probably be just as corrupt or an ass if they were poor.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:40 am 
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Jebus wrote:
Money is good, the richest people in the world are also some of the nicest.
Bill gates, Warren Buffet.


Hmmm, Quite a profound statement... Have you spoken to them personally to know how nice they really are.

It's pretty easy to give philanthropically (and be Nice) when you have a ton of money and will still have a ton of money after giving some away. However, It's much harder and much nicer be charitable, when you don't really have much. IE: buy someone else lunch, when you know you can't afford to buy your own.

But, I digress, that really isn't the topic at hand.

Nothing wrong with Day trading, but I will have to agree with KPJ... The Market is run by the Big Fish, not the average Joe Investor. If by some chance, you can stay a step ahead of the Big Fish, you can make a lot of money. But, beware, you're small investments are not changing the value of the Stocks, their BIG investments are. Often times, they create their own excitement and create a false demand, only so that they can unload their crappy investments to the little guy.

Cliff


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:41 am 
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I can see where Rucifer is coming from in some ways although I do not think I would put it at the "low point" of humanity.

The main problem I see with investing in stocks is that it makes money carry more weight in society because the stock market allows excess money to be multiplied and then multiplied some more. This leads to the validity of the phrase "money talks" which I think is the low point of human society. Excess money allows people to bypass having good, well though out ideas and just flaunt the franklins.

I think THAT is the biggest problem in society, but it is a two way problem. The people who have the money see all these greedy.poor people who can be bought and so they buy them up. The poor/greedy people see the rich people dishing out the dollars and want a piece of the pie so they eagerly sell their influence now so that they buy some of their own later.

This, to me, is the biggest source of corruption in politics and just about every other public forum: the ability to get around thinking by handing out money.

I don't have a lot of money but I have a Roth IRA that I invest in regularly.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:47 am 
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nygmen wrote:
Rucifer wrote:
Am I the only one who views stocks, bonds, mutual funds and all that jazz as sort of the lowest point of human civilization? I've always had this mentality that it just epitomizes everything that is wrong with our society...but on that note...you can make a lot of money if you're good, so if you're willing to put in the time I'd say go for it ;). I had a buddy that basically became so good he didn't have to work a job, just traded.


You understand without the stock market the computer you're typing on and the internet we are exchanging ideas on would probably not be available to you correct? As no one would have bothered to develop it. No such thing as a free lunch


I understand my post was inflammatory but it wasn't meant to knock anyone here. But I do have to disagree with this. Stock markets have not always been around, and there were many advances in technology/civilization without them. Human ingenuity would persevere without them. I guess I do have a socialist mindset most of the time, but I'd like to think I'm half capitalist/half socialist. I know it stocks serve their purpose- but I sort of have Stuward's mentality, that no matter what you just become part of the system.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:59 am 
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KPj wrote:
Guess that depends if you're a capatilist... or a communist....

Sorry bad joke. That's my dads influence. He refers to anyone that doesn't want to work 20 hours a day as a communist.

On a serious note though - what's bad about it? I found your statement to be quite bizarre.... I don't get why anyone would consider it to be bad, or, "the lowest point of human civilisation" - that's a bit extreme. All you're really buying is a % of a business. I don't see it as much different from buying a property. Out of curiousity, where woud you categorise drug dealing/human trafficking/prostitution ?

In saying that, people (well - investors) generally class 'day traders' as scum bags. I never actually done that though so my hands are clean (although there's nothing illegal about it).

KPj


I always imagine the CEO/corporate types as Mr. Scrooges sitting behind desks, marveling at their own riches and ignoring all else. Same with the wall street type. The average everyday trader I guess does not represent this, but it would seem to me that the goal of the average everyday trader would be to eventually become the highest of the high of traders. Why would you want to stick with the small fish when there's bigger to be had?

It just seems to add to the mounting amount of bureaucracy that's in control of our lives. Perhaps I should become religious or something, because the idea of all these human institutions such as the economy and stock market and intangible other creations that literally have no "soul" doesn't give me much hope in the grand scheme of things. Could we really say we're prepared to die for our economy or government? Seems kind of a waste. There's no heart in any of these creations. At least with religion its not all just about pointless prattle such as forms, balances, regulations, quotas, and other things such as this. I mean there's dumb rules in most religions too but overall its about good morals and values and whatnot. Ok this is probably worse than my first post so I'll just finish here before I ramble on too far.


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