First off, there are certainly more than a few "bad apples" when you are talking about corporations.
Look at the numbers. List out everyone you consider a bad apple, and then divide that by the total number of corporations in the world. Your answer will be less than .0001.
If you cringe at people when they are anti-corporate (I can't remember who exactly said that), then you are just cringing at people who don't like to get exploited. That is the ultimate goal of any corporation- to make money, and they will do WHATEVER they can get away with.
Because you would purposely pay more tax than the law provides you should? Because you would plan for more of your estate to go to the government, who pisses away your money, then to your kids? (Who would probably also piss away your money. I see it all the time.)
Since when is making money a bad thing?
But guess what? Paying someone minimum wage is exploiting them.
False. It is actually paying unskilled labor a wage that is often times, more than they should be getting in a free market situation.
I worked for Min Wage in high school. It was awful and I left after a year for a job that I could actually advance past $6.25 an hour. If someone cannot do that, they may need to reassess their choices in life, and make the changes accordingly. I know that laborers can start between 10-14 an hour digging ditches. If working at McDonald's for min wage isn't enough, go dig ditches.
Learn to be a plumber, electrician. $h1t be a garbage man, because without garbage men, or civilization would crash, hardcore & fast.
Before you start going on about less fortunate people born with significantly less opportunity, it is Darwin.
Have you ever tried to survive on minimum wage? Can you raise a family on minimum wage? You wouldn't be typing on a computer, that's for sure
Yes, no & no.
Most people working minimum wage bust their butts at whatever job they are at, as much as the "CEO", but just because their job is not as skilled as the CEO's they are paid a fraction of what he makes.
Yes. Honestly it is laughable if you think for one second unskilled, uneducated labor should be paid anywhere near that of skilled, educated and experienced upper level management.
That is like saying we should pay the guy sweeping the floor the same as Labron James because well, it's just not fair.
So this same CEO "hard working American" who owns 3 vacation homes and uses every possible manner to shield his income from taxes is now felt sorry for in America, because he might have to go down to just 2 vacation homes instead of 3.
I didn't know that working 80+ hours a week and having the stress of billion dollar headaches was now a negative thing? And that these people shouldn't get paid for that. Nor should they spend the money on an extra home & vacationing, which stimulates the economy, which allows companies to hire more minimum wage labor. No, they should certainly NOT spend the money they are paid.
I don't make as much as a CEO and try and shield as much of my income as I can from taxes too. You should also. Outside of fraud, there isn't "loopholes" available to him that aren't available to you.
Does this come off as idealist? Yes. I realize my beliefs definitely outside the norm from the mainstream.
I hear where you are coming from, but am no where near as empathic as you are.
But I am so sick of and tired of hearing how hard of jobs CEO's have compared to the rest of us and that they deserve to get paid so much more than us.
Dude, they do have it harder than you or I. You honestly have zero idea what it is like to run a company with 4 employees and $400,000 of revenue a year, let alone run a company of 400,000 employees and 4 billion in revenue a year.
They do deserve to get paid more than "us".
You can close you eyes and put your fingers in your ears and wish for it to be different all you want, but until you run a business you will never understand.
I agree with you that what happened at AIG was a joke, but again, it is one bad apple. You are making it out that everyone is off dancing on graves. AIG isn't a very good example to use to get your point across.
So someone who works two minimum wage jobs and has 16 hour days doesn't bust their butt? Someone like me who works 40 hours a week and still goes to school full time is just a lazy slob who bleeds off the system just because I am poor? Or how bout this- a young 19 year old kid who goes out to Iraq defending us from harm, and dies in the process, doesn't deserve as much money as some old fat bald dude sitting behind his desk in his big comfy chair with his nice air conditioned room?
Our veterans deserve more than just money, and including them in this conversation is baloney...
You are obviously confused with how much work a CEO does. It is not a vacation in a nice office here. You watch too many movies. And yes CEO's deserve more money then your other examples.
Sorry- but don't count me among those who have sympathy or side with the wealthy in believing they earned their tax cuts
Can someone explain to me these awesome wealthy tax cuts everyone likes talking about. I mean all the schooling I have taken, and 4 years of experience hasn't shown me any. I'm sure my clients would love to hear about this. Everyone likes to throw this around, and well, it doesn't even exist. It annoys me to no end.
Honestly, the less money you make the more tax deductions and credits you can take advantage of.
The IRC is currently slanted to promote long term investment, if that is what you mean by tax cuts...
I'm going to stop here.
Ok like I said I'm not a mass quoter so I'll try to address all your topics but they won't have a quote before each one-
First off, I am sure you and I have a different definition of what it is for a corporation to be corrupt. If you are talking corrupt as in Dr. Evil sitting behind the desk plotting world domination, then perhaps you are right with your calculation of .0001% (I doubt if it be this low, but then again, I have no way of knowing). What I speak of is things they can get away with through manipulation of the system, a couple of examples being exporting of jobs overseas, the importing of foreign-made products with no way of knowing the working conditions of those who made the products or the labor type used (for instance, clothing companies get around that whole no child labor usage stigma by contracting out their work to foreign markets, who in turn contract out the contract and the line goes down until no one is accountable for anything), pretty much any cigarette or junk food company (you know how police tell you to not leave anything valuable in plain sight in your car to not tempt a thief? These companies have or still do market too young children for crying out loud in the hopes of hooking them while their young, all in hopes of profit), oil companies and insurance companies (don't tell me these aren't just corrupt, since they've been posting their biggest profits while everyone else is at their lowest), and so on and so forth. Sure...they don't technically break any laws, but that doesn't make what they do morally right or responsible.
Paying taxes is not pissing away money. It can be, depending on how you look at it, but I for one appreciate the fact we have an army to protect us, a police force, running water, roads to drive on, schools, protected nature reserves, etc. So I doubt you consider these things a waster of money (not just being a smartass- because I know you speak of when you say pissing away your money you are referring to things such as welfare and food stamps and low cost housing for the poverty stricken and the like). But think about this- let's say you take these things away. Let's say we get rid of all welfare and welfare-type programs that exist in America. What do you think would happen? There would be repercussions. I can think of a serious one off the top of my head. Crime rates would soar. That might not mean much too you until someone breaks into your house to try to make ends meet. This would mean pouring more money and time into our police forces to solve the problem. But if I can't appeal to your logical side perhaps the emotional side would be better, and saying that children who rely on government handouts would be the real victims...but anyhow, to address your original statement about paying more the law says- no, your right about that. Just make sure that they are doing it and the %age they are paying is just.
Ahh...I knew the good ole Darwin argument would be brought up eventually. Since Ryan A made a more social Darwinian post than you did, I'll address that on the post I reply to him.
And I didn't say that we all deserved to be paid exactly the same. I just was saying that unskilled workers bust their butts just as much as the CEOs you speak of, just in a different manner. And while I can agree that certain jobs should be making more money, I just don't believe its right that a decent hardworking person in one field deserves more money in one year than another decent person who works their entire life in another.
Yes...perhaps I am too empathetic at times. This is why I know I wouldn't be an ideal candidate for a judge or something, just because I wouldn't let words written down on a piece of paper choose what I believe is right or wrong.
Ok, so the harshness of reality obviously overwhelms my opinion, but that doesn't mean I have to like it or believe in it. AIG is a prime example. Not necessarily the criminal act of those corporate douches that took that retreat, but if all these CEOs were as brilliant as you think they are they wouldn't have needed bailing out by us common folk, nor would the economy be crap right now. I have worked for many small businesses and many large businesses as well. I have seen lazy incompetent bosses and managers of them succeed, and good ones fail. Your generalization that all successful leaders of business work 18 hour days 7 days a week is not accurate. I realize this is anecdotal, but working at a golf course and a hotel which have many wealthy customers has given me more insight than you might think. Sometimes a little luck goes a long way.
Including armed forces members is baloney? Why is this? I agree with you they do deserve more than just money...but I fail to see why an including them in this topic is wrong. But just for the sake of argument, let's exclude them. How about police officers? Firemen? Hell, teachers? Their jobs require as much dedication as the CEOs you speak of. Without them society would crumble.
Ok I just want to say a couple of things to you. I am not opposed to some people earning more money than others. I am not opposed to CEOs making more money than me. I realize your positions are the way things are, but I can't say I agree with it or like it. I don't see how anyone could think that so few deserve so much, while so many deserve so little. This is why I think the way I think- I am not against having certain jobs earn more because they are more skilled and are more challenging. I just think there should be some regulation by an authority to make sure it doesn't blow out of proportion the way it has. And well, the only one who could regulate it is the government. I don't believe greed is the primary reason that our society survives. I think its what keeps us held back. Even if you tempered some people's salaries to not be as much as they are, the positions would still be filled. They would still make more money and live comfortably. Not everyone does what they do strictly because they are only concerned with the salary. Not everything is motivated by greed. If that were the case, there would be no one doing volunteer work, nor would people donate to charity. Some jobs would never get filled, because they require more skillfulness than they earn in salary (teachers and social workers come to mind). But even if my views were applied it would still leave room for competitive and obviously intelligent dudes like yourself to prove your worth and earn your respect and notoriety