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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:24 pm 
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KPj wrote:

Also, my dad has been self employed since he was 16. He's had more businesses than I can remember. He done it from nothing, and has came close to bankruptcy on a few occasions. He also done it largely as a single parent.

Conversely, my Grandad worked hard and spent sensibly all his life for a big development business and walked away with a great pension. He saved and invested wisely for his retirement all of his life. He was never wealthy until retirement - atleast, he never let on to anyone. As you would imagine, he and my dad never got on too well, lol although the old man has respect for him now. It's 2 very different and interesting paths to take.

My Grandad is 80 right now and sits on the net looking after his investments. Oh, and playing Bridge.

KPj



When you say your dad didn't get along with his dad, why?

This got me thinking about how you said you should invest the money you have to make more money. "grow your money" is the phrase I believe.

Anyway, if this is the case, do you think (and I am just reaching here) there is some optimum age/circumstance/whatever where having more money is better for "growing" or multiplying said money. For instance, is someone in his 30's who is likely to be more in touch with current technology and new ideas OR someone in his 50's who has more experience, even though he may not be up on the latest and greatest, better at taking whatever money they have and making it bigger?

The reason I bring this up is your grandpa sitting on this huge retirement. I am not knocking his choice in anyway, this is more intellectual curiosity. I mean ultimately, it is most wise to give ones inheritance to all of ones living descendants, in fact most wise to give it to the ones that are going to be the most successful with it. Do you think it is wiser for a father, as he grows older, to give his funds to his son(s) and let them invest and then take care of his(their) father in return? Seems like ultimately, whose hands are on the money makes a big difference.

Perhaps the simple answer is that individuals vary so much that each father makes the choice of giving his funds over to his son. I suspect that some fathers find their sons unfit to manage their funds or some other rift has occurred that prevents the "hand-off" from taking place.

This seemed sufficiently different from the investing thread that I did not want to go off on a tangent.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:28 pm 
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In my last days of living I would have to give my money to whom ever is most joo-ish.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:55 pm 
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Ryan A wrote:
I am not knocking his choice in anyway, this is more intellectual curiosity. I mean ultimately, it is most wise to give ones inheritance to all of ones living descendants, in fact most wise to give it to the ones that are going to be the most successful with it.


Absolutely, and people do it all the time. This is where the term "trust fund baby" comes from. There are tax repercussions to consider, so one should consult with a professional before doing anything, but yeah, it generally is a very good idea to kick your wealth down while still alive to avoid paying out the behind upon death, among other reasons.

It's a good sign that you thought of this on your own. It generally means you should do okay with wealth management as you age.

ANYONE with money should see a professional about estate planning. I can't stress this enough.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:12 am 
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Ryan A wrote:


When you say your dad didn't get along with his dad, why?


My grandad was, and is a very 'cautious' and thoughtfull guy. He would never invest in anything, be it stocks or even just a new car, without doing thorough research and knowing everything there is to know. When my dad was growing up, my grandad was not approachable at all. My dad often descirbes him as the guy that would walk along the beach with his suit on, only, his tie would be loosened and his coat would be over his shoulder. Paints a good picture of what he was like. He was a guy that beleived in education, structure, etc (he was actually a lecturer at one point early in his career). All he did was work, and play golf at the local club. Even to this day, I can go visit my grandad and i'll sit drinking tea, be there for 45 minutes - 1 hour, and the majority of the time, we sit in silence. It's not awkward or anything, he's just your typical 'man of few words'.

Compare that to my dad. He left school before the age of 16. When he was 16 he had a Porsche engined beach buggy which he drove illegally on the roads. Got into lot's of trouble with women lol. He was wreckless. My dad and his friend approached my grandad for a loan of [1 million dollars] to start their own burger van. It's a great story. My dad sat up all night waiting for him coming home. Sat with him in silence for hours until he worked up the courage. Was about 2-3am before he asked for the loan. My grandad said, "do you think I work hard and earn my money, just so i can piss it down your drain?". That was the first and only time my dad asked him for help.

My dad was very much a brutally hard working guy even at that age. He and his friend eventually got the money and ended up with 2 burger vans, (he refers to it as a 'chain' but it was 2). They had prime spots in Glasgow and made a lot of money. Afterwards he got into cars, buying and selling, and starters and alternators. Meanwhile, my grandad used to introduce my dad as "my son - the bum". My dad, by the time he was 21, was on his 4th Jaguar. Whatever he wanted, he would go out and earn it. He was always moving from house to house, car to car, and one venture to the next venture - it's exactly what my grandad didn't like. My dad has 2 sisters and one of them is an outspoken, strict socialist, who works for one of the major trade unions in London - just to show how different my dad turned out.

It's different now. They got on quite well. My dads quite succesful now. And doing that mostly as a single parent and with no support from his own parents (not even child minding), it would take an idiot to NOT have loads of respect for him. So, they do get on now but didn't until about 10-15 years ago.

I know that was long winded explanation but it was a long story. That's the short version, too. The long version is probably worthy of a book.

Ryan A wrote:
Anyway, if this is the case, do you think (and I am just reaching here) there is some optimum age/circumstance/whatever where having more money is better for "growing" or multiplying said money. For instance, is someone in his 30's who is likely to be more in touch with current technology and new ideas OR someone in his 50's who has more experience, even though he may not be up on the latest and greatest, better at taking whatever money they have and making it bigger?


This isn't a good answer but, I honestly don't know... Everything I do, money or life wise, I generally consult my dad and my grandad. My dad is a 'get up and go' guy. For example, when I bought and sold that house before the market crashed, I got everything together and went to my dad. His response was, "go for it, just f**king do it!". My grandad strongly advised I stay away from it, and warned of a huge crash in the market. Both of them generally always give opposing views.

In saying that I think the older person will be able to take a step back and see the bigger picture more than the younger one. My dad probably never really got things right until he was 40-ish. I think you need to be weary of life experience. It's easy to get a little success at a young age and think you're a pro. Which is why I think my grandad told me the best thing that could happen to me with investing is that I invest in stocks and LOSE money (learn when you're young instead of screwing it all up when you're older). He said it would of been 'tragic' if I got a quick win when I first got my feet wet. Remember I personally haven't went into the stock market yet i've just been looking at it for a while now. I have invested in property, though.


Ryan A wrote:
Do you think it is wiser for a father, as he grows older, to give his funds to his son(s) and let them invest and then take care of his(their) father in return? Seems like ultimately, whose hands are on the money makes a big difference.


I'm not really sure (again.. sorry). My grandad has never gave anything to my dad, even when he was on the verge of losing everything. I remember being about 7, and sherifs officers taking our house, car, etc (via unpaid taxes). My dad explained at the time that the car got stolen (LOL) and we just had to move house but he told me the truth when I was older. Even then, with a few kids, he got no help at all. So, the grandad letting the dad take care of investments for him is just not something we, or they, have ever considered.

After I got my feet wet with the property thing, me and my friend done well out of it. Incidentally, he's sitting on the profit making subtle interest off it, and I put it into another house to rent out, so pretty much ended up back where I started (but with a house and sitting tennant). However, my dad wreckoned I had a good eye for it so asked me to source him a couple of flats, which I did, and he's got, and even in current times, they'r worth more than I got them for. I don't think he done this becuase he trusted me more, though, it wsa just because he had the means, but doesn't have the time.

Ryan A wrote:
Perhaps the simple answer is that individuals vary so much that each father makes the choice of giving his funds over to his son. I suspect that some fathers find their sons unfit to manage their funds or some other rift has occurred that prevents the "hand-off" from taking place.


I would agree with this. I don't think there's any telling, really...

I know that's A LOT of typing without any answers..... It's an interesting subject.

Also, I agree with nygmen about seeing a professional. I don't know about my grandad, but I know my dad has financial advisers that he visits from time to time. Not sure what they do for him or what he has in place, I just know of them because I used one of the guys there to sort out my first mortgage and explain various implications to me such as tax, legal fees etc. I would be shocked if my grandad didn't have someone he uses. Unless he considers himself a pro in his own right. who knows. At 80, he is incredibly sharp.

Even my grandad has short comings, btw. Recently in a discussion with him, he said, "but, at the end of the day, you're talking to a guy that invested in the dollar just before it crashed. What do I know?". LOL.

KPj


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