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 Post subject: Testosterone Article
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:42 am 
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Did someone (maybe me?) post an article a few months ago about a study on testosterone supplementation and exercise in elderly men? As I recall, it involved 4 study groups; test only, resistance exercise only, text plus exercise, and control with neither. The subjects were all older men. I'm interested in seeing it again, particularly in regard to the side effects (which, as I recall, were minimal).

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 Post subject: Re: Testosterone Article
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:55 am 
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Not what you're looking for but I happened to see this one yesterday and you might find interesting.

"A decline in testosterone levels as men grow older is likely the result—not the cause—of deteriorating general health, say Australian scientists, whose new study finds that age, in itself, has no effect on testosterone level in healthy older men."

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2011-06-o ... althy.html

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 Post subject: Re: Testosterone Article
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:00 am 
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Good find Mark. Growing old doesn't slow you down, it's slowing down that makes you old.

Andy, is this what you wanted? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17132757

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 Post subject: Re: Testosterone Article
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:11 am 
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stuward wrote:
Growing old doesn't slow you down, it's slowing down that makes you old.


Ha! Keep telling yourself that Pops


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 Post subject: Re: Testosterone Article
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:15 am 
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robertscott wrote:
stuward wrote:
Growing old doesn't slow you down, it's slowing down that makes you old.


Ha! Keep telling yourself that Pops


Thanks, punk.

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 Post subject: Re: Testosterone Article
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:27 am 
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stuward wrote:
Good find Mark. Growing old doesn't slow you down, it's slowing down that makes you old.
Great quote! Is this original with you, or are you quoting some famous and wise person?
stuward wrote:
Andy, is this what you wanted? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17132757

Nope. The article that I think I remember (inserting aging joke of choice here) used relatively high-dose testosterone given intramuscularly once a week. That's why the low rate of adverse effects was interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Testosterone Article
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:45 am 
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stuward wrote:
Good find Mark. Growing old doesn't slow you down, it's slowing down that makes you old.


Glad to be of service. On a sidenote your summing up reminded of something Berardi (IIRC) wrote about the metabolic slowdown that is supposedly responsible for turning 30 and 40 yos in fat slabs. It was something like in people who don't train metabolism slows down like 10+% every decade, whereas in people who stay active it was something like 0.5% per decade. Sadly, I have no time to look it up now.

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 Post subject: Re: Testosterone Article
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:54 am 
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Jungledoc wrote:
stuward wrote:
Good find Mark. Growing old doesn't slow you down, it's slowing down that makes you old.
Great quote! Is this original with you, or are you quoting some famous and wise person?


I'm sure I read that somewhere but I don't know where.

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 Post subject: Re: Testosterone Article
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:07 am 
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Jungledoc wrote:
stuward wrote:
Andy, is this what you wanted? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17132757

Nope. The article that I think I remember (inserting aging joke of choice here) used relatively high-dose testosterone given intramuscularly once a week. That's why the low rate of adverse effects was interesting.


It sounds familiar but I can't find it. I did find another that suggests there are side effects:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10495072

I think this one summed it up best.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/12/ ... S320101203
"I think prevention is probably better treatment,"

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 Post subject: Re: Testosterone Article
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:17 am 
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mark74 wrote:
It was something like in people who don't train metabolism slows down like 10+% every decade, whereas in people who stay active it was something like 0.5% per decade.


It was in PN's free PDF ebook:

Quote:
In fact, according to research, individuals who—through exercise and smart eating—maintain their lean mass (muscle, bone, and other non-fat tissue) as they age experience only a 0.36 percent drop in metabolism per decade compared to the 5 to 7 percent per decade drop that most adults experience.


Unfortunately there are no references to the actual studies.

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 Post subject: Re: Testosterone Article
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:28 am 
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You can subtract 10 years off your age just by being active.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... eally-make
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... -longevity

Andy and I have posted before about this and it's clear that most of the benefit comes from attempting to build power, strength and muscle, no matter what your age. The details of an optimal exercise protocol may still be debatable but doing something, anything, is critical.

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Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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 Post subject: Re: Testosterone Article
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:37 am 
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I believe this is the article I had seen. I remembered incorrectly that the study was limited to older men. Otherwise, I think this is the one.

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 Post subject: Re: Testosterone Article
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:09 pm 
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"such drugs have potentially serious adverse effects on the cardiovascular system, prostate, lipid metabolism, and insulin sensitivity." Not quite side-effect free.

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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 Post subject: Re: Testosterone Article
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:23 pm 
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http://ftp.mesomorphosis.com/downloads/ ... %20Men.pdf

I think that's the same article, I didn't look word for word.

I posted it awhile back to show how big of an advantage steroid use is in sports/bodybuilding/etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Testosterone Article
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:54 am 
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stuward wrote:
"such drugs have potentially serious adverse effects on the cardiovascular system, prostate, lipid metabolism, and insulin sensitivity." Not quite side-effect free.
I don't think anyone says that they are side-effect free. The emphasis here is on "potentially". The potential effects are known. The important question is how often they occur in actual usage, and how severe are they when they occur. It's assumed that the potential for significant harm would increase with longer periods of use, but again, this needs to be determined by actual experience.
Quote:
"The absence of systemic toxicity during testosterone treatment was consistent with the results of studies of the contraceptive efficacy of that hormone."
This sentence has a reference to a study from 1988 on high-dose testosterone used over a period of 6 months in a small number of men as a male contraceptive. I can't access the full text of 1988 articles, and the abstract doesn't say what the actual dose was. But the authors of the Bahsin article imply that there were no significant SEs in that study.

Again, it would be nice to see large, longer duration studies of adverse effects.
Here is a meta-analysis of studies of benefits and risks of long-term testosterone replacement. All of these involved attempts to bring test levels up to normal, not the supra normal levels of the Bahsin study.

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