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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:35 pm 
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So I started doing the Wendler 5/3/1 program a few months back (I think I am on my 5th cyle). For this cycle I have really struggled with the military press. During the 3 x 5 and 3 x 3 weeks I failed to get all of the reps on the final set (1 short both weeks). This week on the 5/3/1 week I got the 1 rep on the final set.

I am curious as to whether people here would consider this a stall and reset or see if I can get through this on the next cycle since I got the 1 rep on the final set this week?

I adjusted some things with my diet a little over a week ago (more calories and some more protein) but I am not sure if that helped this or not. Deadlifts went much better this week so I am hoping it helped, of course it could just be a better week.

Thank you,

L~


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:55 am 
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I would just repeat the cycle at the same weight and see if you can get another rep or two. If you don't make progress, then I would call it a stall. OHP is the hardest exercise to make progress with.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:56 pm 
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Forward 5 cycles and then back 3 regardless of how many reps you are getting is what JW currently recommends.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:47 pm 
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Thanks I was thinking of a lesser reset (maybe back 2 weeks) as doing more reps at a lower weight for a cycle or two isn't really too big of a deal. I know it is the long haul that matters but sometimes it is hard not to push things.

Properknob -- I didn't realize he had changed that part. He seems to have George Lucas disease with 5/3/1. :)

Thanks again,

L~


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:45 am 
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Wendler also states nowadays that one should be able to do 5 strong reps (with good barspeed) in 5/3/1-week.

I would recommend a lower TM, either a new calculation (taking 85% instead of 90%) or going back 3 cycles and go from there.

When I trained with 5/3/1 and was in your situation, unless I had really bad days, I decided to go back 3 cycles. This always lead to stronger reps with better technique and a better training-effect. And you can always try to go for a new rep-record with the lower weight.

If you really have a problem (with your ego) grinding out reps on the plus-sets (also a problem I had in the beginning) I would advise trying 5`s Progression (plus 3-5x5 FSL).

Always remember, you want to build strength in training... training is not the time to test your strength.

Good luck!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:16 am 
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Crow wrote:
Wendler also states nowadays that one should be able to do 5 strong reps (with good barspeed) in 5/3/1-week.

I would recommend a lower TM, either a new calculation (taking 85% instead of 90%) or going back 3 cycles and go from there.


Lower Training Max Calculation

This is an excellent point.

With that stated, let me add to it.

Training Percentages

Training percentages are not carved in stone, they are a guideline.

Explicitly following the training percentage designated can be counter productive in obtaining your objective.

That means if the if the training guideline you are using is too hard/demanding, you need to DROP the weight down.

The Training Objective

The true training objective is to max out in the final week of your training program.

The weeks preceding you last all out max out week are what I term...

Warm Up Weeks

Warm up weeks are no different that warm up sets.

A minimal amount of work needs to be performed with warm ups sets. This ensures you greatest amount of strength and energy is reserved for you top, all out max effort set.

With that said, here how Warm Up Weeks need to be applied to...

The 5/3/1 Program

Sets of 5 Reps Week: Think of this as the your first Warm Up Week. This workout should be fairly easy. You should be able to complete your sets of 5 reps with room to spare.

If your are struggling in this 85% week, it's going to impact the following week.

Sets of 3 Week: Think of this as your second Warm Up Week. This workout is more taxing. However, you should still be able to finish your set of 3 reps with room to spare.

If you are struggling with a 90% week, it going to impact the next week.

Set or Sets of 1: This is your all out max week. This is where you push it to the limit.

This is where inroads are made with strength.

Active Recovery Week

This is your Reset Week in which your training load is light and easy.

This is where you start back over with Sets of 5 Reps. It NEEDS to be fairly easy.

Quote:
When I trained with 5/3/1 and was in your situation, unless I had really bad days, I decided to go back 3 cycles. This always lead to stronger reps with better technique and a better training-effect.


Great Information!

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And you can always try to go for a new rep-record with the lower weight
.

Somewhat Disagree

Again, think of each week as a Warm Up Week like a Warm Up Set.

Preforming rep-records with Warm Up Sets kills your top set.

That same analogy applies with Warm Up Weeks.

If you really have a problem (with your ego) grinding out reps on the plus-sets (also a problem I had in the beginning)...

Common Problem

This is a common problem with ambitious individuals.

No one wants to do less than they have been doing.

What end up happening is common sense is overridden by emotion.

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Always remember, you want to build strength in training... training is not the time to test your strength.


Another excellent point.

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Good luck!


Everyone determine their own luck for the most part.

"Chance (luck) favors the prepared."

Kenny Croxdale

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 6:51 pm 
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Thanks again for the comments -- more things to think about.

I guess I am misunderstanding the + sets in the program. I thought you were supposed to do as many as you could without missing a rep. If I don't think I can do a rep I don't start it. I'll have to read more on this topic. It's kind of tough when you are doing this by yourself. I don't want to cop out and be lazy but I also am trying to keep the big picture in mind and think long term (I set yearly goals back in January which won't be tested until Dec).

The good news is the other lifts are going well so I can be thankful for that. 3 out of 4 ain't bad.

Thanks again,

L~


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:09 am 
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Improving 3 out of 4 is good, as Wendler repeatedly wrote in the past. Unless you are really beginning weight training, it is normal that lifts improve in waves. I had times where two lifts improved and the other two wouldn`t move at all. "Suddenly" these lifts jumped and the others stagnated. Often my improvements came after resetting because fatigue disappeared (especially after I went back 3 cycles for all lifts, which I have done two times; I trained about 24 cycles with 5/3/1). So you have to believe in your training and the work you put in. The system works because it follows good principles and allows little tweaks to suit even better to the individual.

About the "Plus-Sets"... you are understanding it right, even though Kenny has written a charming, but slightly different take to look at them. Pretty much what Wendler tries to achieve with 5`s Pro, I guess. As long as you make it a pride doing technical clean reps without grinding, you will be fine doing more reps in the plus-sets. This usually means to leave 2-3 reps in the tank. This is, after all (like Kenny wrote) more important than breaking rep-records, because you should always train for tomorrow not today. For me, out of 5 training-sessions 1 was "really bad" and 3 were "mediocre". So if you happen to be like me, you will know in which sessions you should be conservative (even doing only the minimum reps if necessary) and which session will allow to ride the wave. And smart training on "bad days" (and being consistant) will give you the results.

May I ask which template you followed? (the complete setup?)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:24 pm 
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Sorry for taking so long to reply. I think I am basically doing the "normal" 5/3/1. Here are my exercises. The main lift for that day is first and follows the 5/3/1 format. The assistance exercises were chosen either to give me more practice on a particular exercise (to help keep form good) or because I wanted to add a bunch of pulling exerises for shoulder health to balance the pushing ones. I did cut the assistance back from 5 x 10 to 4 x 10 as I thought the benefit of the extra reps were negligible and I'm not getting any younger. If the assistance exercise is on the same line I am supersetting them with 1 minute between sets.

Monday
Deadlift
Squat 4 x10
Ab Roll 2 x 22
Coss SQ 2 x 10

Tuesday
Military Press
One arm Dumbell Row/Tricep pushup 4 x 10
Chin-ups/Pull-ups or Rope climbing

Thursday
Squat
Ab Roller 2 x 22
Cossack SQ 2 x 10

Friday
Bench Press
Rear Delt Row/Military Press 4 x 10
Inverted Row/Band Pulls 4 x 10

Hopefully that answers your question. If not I'll try again.

L~


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 1:13 am 
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Overall it looks fine but I would suggest the following...

On one hand you reduce assistance to 4x10, on the other hand you are doing more excercises and not only light prehab stuff like Face Pulls or Band Pull-aparts. You don`t have to do everything at the same time with 5/3/1. You can make small changes ("same but different") every two cycles with your assistance and also the supplemental excercises, which works really well with rows and chins (different grip) or "core excercises"... So following your setup it would look like:

Press 5/3/1
Bench 5x10
Chins 5x10

Deadlift 5/3/1
Squats 5x10
Ab Wheel Roll-outs 5x10

Bench 5/3/1
Press 5x10
Row 5x10

Squats 5/3/1
Deadlift 5x10
Hanging or Vertical Leg-Raise 5x10

Things like Face Pulls won`t hurt with this setup.

You could also change templates after two cycles, for example following BBB with the Triumvirate and doing the Simplest Strength Template next followed with BBB again...

Nowadays Wendler recommends doing assistance with the following structure (prefering bodyweight excercises):
Push: 50-100 reps (push-ups or dips or db bench variations)
Pull: 50-100 reps (rows, chins, shrugs, curls)
Unilateral leg or core: 50-100 reps (any abdominal excercise, back raises, split squats, rear lunges or step-ups)
Choose one from each category and change them after two cycles. Doesn`t matter how many sets/reps you do and rather do the volume before adding weight (it`s possible to superset things like chins with every other set that day).
You can start with lower reps (like 30 for example) of course.

So each day turns into a fullbody-day.

Nearly endless possibilities to structure your training to your current needs. ;)


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:45 pm 
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Yeah I know it looks a little weird and a bit much. If I am having a terrible day I sometimes skip one or two the assistance exercises. Also by doing most of them as supersets it keeps the weight down on them so I am lifting hard but not at the edge of not getting things done (the bodyweight stuff -- the cossacks squats/tricep push-ups/inverted rows -- really aren't too bad as far as pushing myself since they are bw only). The chin-ups as also something I usually just do several sets of 4-5 (don't go to failure) as I feel that week.

I'm trying to keep the ratio of pulls to pushes high as my shouolders are already a bit "crunchy" and I am hoping training smart will make them last longer.

I struggle with lifting smart and also wanting to push myself. I'm in my mid 40's and I would like to try to get what I can but also try to keep from overdoing things. I'll keep everything in mind you said in case things seem to be going downhill.

Thanks for the advice so far I appreciate you taking the time to help,

L~


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