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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:40 pm 
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n00b
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Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:59 am
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I got to thinking today amid reading an article about squats, it sort of got me thinking. It seems the popular trend today in the fitness world is elevating squats above pretty much every other exercise as one that everyone must be doing or they're not really "lifting". In this article - https://drjohnrusin.com/the-truth-about ... s-out-cue/ - pretty much emphasizes that a lot of the population "can't squat"., or at least not properly and are setting themselves up for big time problems down the road. And go on any internet related comment section of someone doing a squat (or a lot of other exercises, but squat primarily) and you'll get loads of people saying bad form or doing it incorrectly. It just really got me thinking...should would be recommending squats above all else?

I'm reminded of reading many, many articles regarding cardio beginners and experts about what's the "best" form of cardio exercise. While they factor many variables into account, the general consensus in many of what I've read is running is the most effective, but do what you enjoy as it will keep you participating in the exercise. Also they tend to state that ____ (blank) might be better for some because of ______ . Why don't we advocate a similar policy when it comes to weight training?

The reason I'm stating this is because while squats might be the best exercise in a sense, they don't really take other factors into account. Personal note - squats were causing major hip pain (along with deadlifts, which I think initially caused the problem) for some time before i really pinpointed my issue and since I have quit them for the time being by problems have subsided significantly. I still do other leg exercises without problems. I started lifting in my late teens and then started squatting/deadlifting shortly thereafter. I have been off and on and now am mid 30s, but I just now realize - I never really enjoyed either of them either. Perhaps I was one with bad form and that's the main reason, but doing them on a consistent basis made me generally feel achy and run down, moreso than any other exercise.

So the reason I'm posting is wondering if anyone else finds the dichotomy of YOU MUST SQUAT while also knowing full well that many butcher the movement? "Many" also does not just include beginners if experts writing on the subject is any indication. And I know the response - "Learn from a professional". How many people do you really think are going to shell out the $ for a professional (and I don't just mean personal trainer at random commerical gym) to actually learn how to do it? And since ego is also a primary motivator - aren't we really compounding the problem with perhaps the 2nd biggest ego driven exercise next to bench press?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:50 am 
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Powerlifting Ninja
Powerlifting Ninja

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:36 am
Posts: 1113
mattsouth wrote:
I got to thinking today amid reading an article about squats, it sort of got me thinking. It seems the popular trend today in the fitness world is elevating squats above pretty much every other exercise as one that everyone must be doing or they're not really "lifting". In this article - https://drjohnrusin.com/the-truth-about ... s-out-cue/ - pretty much emphasizes that a lot of the population "can't squat"., or at least not properly and are setting themselves up for big time problems down the road. And go on any internet related comment section of someone doing a squat (or a lot of other exercises, but squat primarily) and you'll get loads of people saying bad form or doing it incorrectly. It just really got me thinking...should would be recommending squats above all else?


Should Everyone Squat?

The simple answer, NO. That coming from a hard core Powerlifter, Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist with a degree in Exercise (me).

The underlying reason so many on exercise forums state that the Squat is a mandatory exercise is because these individuals are uneducated parrots. The dogma that everyone should Squat it a mantra; a result of years brainwashing passed on from one "Gym Rat" to another.

Gym Rats

The majority of "Gym Rats" could not spell "Cat" if you spotted them the "C" and the "T". Any training article they may read has more pictures than words.

In plain English, the majority of individuals who hand out information in gym and on exercise message boards are clueless. With that said, the Exercise.Net forum is composed of some of the more knowledgeable members (Stu, Jungledoc, Ironman, Horsegow, Stephen, etc)

THE TRUTH ABOUT SQUAT DEPTH, INJURY RATES & THE “KNEES OUT” CUE

This article is a mixture good and not so good information.

Generally speaking, "Knees out" is a fairly good cue for the majority of lifters. Dr Zach Long's obsession with it being a poor cue is influenced by the population that he worked with...

1) CrossFit: This is a cult of misguided "Gym Rat" with a chronic history of performing exercises incorrectly. Their injuries coming from coaches with a minimal amount of knowledge and a teenage high school mentality; more balls than brains.

CrossFit is well recognized and documented as one of THE most injury prone groups of athletes on the planet. Their philosophy is based more on ignorance rather than sound training protocols.

Their objective appears to be "Keep pulling or pushing until you puke" during every training session.

CrossFit is "The Poster Child" for Rhabdo (Rhabdomyolysis). Few knew what Rhabdo was until CrossFit put it on the map.

2) Coaching Credentials: Coaches can obtain a CrossFit Coach Certification by attending a two day weekend course. Thus, in two days they go from "Gym Rat" (uneducated semi moron) to "Certified CrossFit Coach" (strength training guru). Really?

Thus, Long's observation are driving by working with a population of uneducated individuals coached by a cult of coaches with a very limited amount of knowledge.

Analogy

Long's view is somewhat skewed; his observation are based on the CrossFit morons.

Long's perspective is akin to aliens who visit a Basketball game. They report back that playing Basketball make you tall, sitting in the bleacher make you short.

The Take Home Message

Snapshots NEVER give you the whole picture.

Quote:
I'm reminded of reading many, many articles regarding cardio beginners and experts about what's the "best" form of cardio exercise. While they factor many variables into account, the general consensus in many of what I've read is running is the most effective,...


The BEST

"Best" is a trite and misused term. IF something were truly "The Best" then everything else would be obsolete.

Thus, ANYONE stating that "Running is the most effective" is ignorant.

Take Home Message

There is NO BEST! With that in mind, there are a variety of exercises that are "Some of the Best".

Quote:
...but do what you enjoy as it will keep you participating in the exercise. Also they tend to state that ____ (blank) might be better for some because of ______ . Why don't we advocate a similar policy when it comes to weight training?


Good Point

Finding something you enjoy is one of the keys.

If Squat aren't something you enjoy and aren't built for, there are other "Squat" options.

1) Lunges

2) Step Ups

3) Leg Press

4) Belt Squats

5) Trap Bar Squat/Deadlift

6) Bike. A bike essentially is a one Leg "Leg Press". Bike Sprints have legs are as good or better than Bodybuilders.

Quote:
Personal note - squats were causing major hip pain (along with deadlifts, which I think initially caused the problem) for some time before i really pinpointed my issue and since I have quit them for the time being by problems have subsided significantly. I still do other leg exercises without problems.


Other Leg Exercises

As you've noted, other Leg Exercise work.

Vince Taylor won the Master Mr Olympic 5 times. Taylor had exceptional Legs.

Taylor hated Squat and never did them. Instead Taylor preformed a variety of Leg Press': Wide Stance, Narrow Stance, Feet Low on Platform, Feet High on Platform, One Legged Leg Press, etc.

Quote:
So the reason I'm posting is wondering if anyone else finds the dichotomy of YOU MUST SQUAT while also knowing full well that many butcher the movement?
[/quote]

Squats Are Mandatory

1) Yes, they are for Powerlifters because it is one of the three lifts. The exception is they are not necessary for individuals entered in only the Bench Press, only the Deadlift or the Push/Pull (Bench/Deadlift) events.

2) Yes, they are for Olympic Weightlifters. The Squat Snatch and Clean in the Clean and Jerk must be Squatted Up.

3) NO, Squats are not necessary for the majority of other sports or general population.

With that said, some type of "Squat Like" compound movement will suffice.

Personal Noted

The Squat is not a natural movement for me. I Squat for technique, not as a means of increasing Strength.

My Strength for the Squat is build to Auxiliary Squat Movements: Belt Squats, Step Ups, and Trap Bar Squat/Deadlifts.

Here's why...

Pole Vaulting For Reps Analogy

NO Pole Vaulter vaults for repetition or wears a weight vest when vaulting as a means of increasing strength. That's considered idiotic.

Strength is developed in the gym with training exercise that are similar in nature to the Pole Vault and develop the muscle utilized in the movement.

Ironically, Powerlifters employ the sports movements for repetition as a means of developing Strength and Technique for the Squat, Bench Press and Deadlift. It works to a certain extent. However, it promotes and lead to poor technique.

Powerlifters (my people so to speak) fall into the same category as most athletes; they lack knowledge and are not motivated to take the time for self-education.

"Dumb Jocks"

It's no wonder the majority of athlete are considered Dumb.

An athlete who can string enough word together to make a coherent sentence is considered to be fairly smart.

Kenny Croxdale

_________________
Thanks TimD.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:31 pm 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity

Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:19 pm
Posts: 4505
Location: Pennsylvania
There are people who can't or shouldn't squat for a variety of reasons. ... There are also a lot of people who avoid squatting because squats are hard and/or because leg training isn't a high priority for them.

It's been my experience that most people squat incorrectly. Most people also bench incorrectly, military press incorrectly, deadlift incorrectly ... The list goes on and on. That alone is no reason to avoid an exercise. ... Admittedly, squat form is more tricky than most popular exercises, but it's no where near as technical as the Olympic lifts. Meanwhile, I've seen people make dramatic improvement in a single training session with relatively minor changes in stance, grip and/or bar placement.


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