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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:31 pm 
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n00b
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Hi,

I remember watching an interview with some doctor on TV who was being questioned about muscle mass gains for guys in their mid 30's. I believe it was related to the Barry Bonds steroid scandal. Anyway, I seem to recall this doc saying that it was nearly physically impossible for a 35 year old man to put on more than 10 lbs. of muscle in a year without the help of steroids, HGH, whatever. Has anyone heard something similar to this or is this not true?

I'll be 37 soon and I just started working out with dumbbells about a month ago. So far I'm pleased with the results as I'm definitely stronger and can notice some slight size improvements in my arms and chest. But I'm wondering if I'm going to be busting my butt over the next few months just to make minimal gains or if I can look forward to slow but steady improvements.

Thanks in advance!

Fitz


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:42 pm 
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Apprentice
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA
No matter whan answers you receive, every body is different, and anything is possible.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:17 pm 
I started weight training at the age of 30 and have put on 50 lbs in 4 years.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:56 pm 
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Yes, I would say this is a typical rule of thumb for most people. If you can gain more than that after several years working out, then you are in a very elite class of people.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:40 am 
Or you just know what works. It is true that people like me who require extreme effort to keep from being a gigantic fatty put muscle on a little easier. Still I get sick of all this genetic stuff. I see lots of people do things I think are not effective. I see those same people not getting much in the way of gains. I don't think it is a coincidence. So I don't see why being older would matter unless you have lower testosterone levels or something like that.

Besides that, I'd rather be the guy who can eat anything he wants.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:06 am 
you can only eat whatever you want to a certain point, and then you wont make the kind of gains you want, and as for them not making results doing their thing how would you know they arent making results (no offense or anything) but are you monitoring them or just glancing at them once and a while ?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:10 am 
oh and also, as for needing extreme effort to not be fat, that comes 50% from what you eat, if you didnt eat "whatever you wanted" you wouldnt have to work out nearly as much to maintain your weight
and genetics does play a big part, im not saying you cant become some huge muscular guy without genetics, but they help you pack on more muscle than the average person, because you have above average genetics in that dept. and back again to the people not getting gains, unless you know what their goals are, and keep track of their performance you have no idea if they are making gains towards what they want to or not


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:07 am 
Just for reference, 10 lbs of muscle mass in a year seems like plenty, no?

People don't go from weak to super strong in a year. And when you start, you gain more strength than muscle mass, because a lot of what you're doing is working small muscles you aren't used to, and getting your large muscles into form.

Most movements I do, I lift 40-100% more than when I started only 5 months ago. But I'd be shocked if I've gained more than 5 lbs. of muscle mass (I'm 38).

Think about how much muscle you need to put on to be very strong. Say you are a typical 6'0" male. With 15% bf and just enough muscle to be reasonably fit, you'd weigh around 150 lbs. With 15% bf and a *lot* of muscle (very athletic and strong), you'd weigh 190-210 lbs. As a powerlifter or other extreme strength athlete, you might get up to 250 lbs. but most people aren't even capable of doing that, especially if they don't start early. So there's maybe 90-100 lbs. of muscle between the weakest and the strongest fit persons in this class. The powerlifter doesn't even have twice as much lean mass as the weakling, but probably lifts 4-5 times more weight.

And who makes that kind of transition in a year? 10 lbs. a year means you can go from skinny to very muscular in 4-5 years and to the extremes of muscular in 10+ years. Doesn't that seem pretty reasonable? I definitely didn't expect to make that kind of progress in a year. 10 lbs. of muscle mass is a lot.


Michael


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:01 am 
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n00b
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Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:28 pm
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Thanks for the responses everyone.

To Michael:

Yes, 10 lbs. in a year would be plenty for me. However, my concern from what I heard is that's the maximum if I do everything right. Being a novice at this, I'm sure I won't do everything right. So I'm wondering if I will be battling Mother Nature just to add a few pounds of lean mass per year.

Even though I never really lifted before, I'm not starting out as a skinny guy as I'm naturally moderately strong. When I started lifting I was about 6' 1", 215 lbs. with BF around 20%, I'm guessing. My goal is to add some lean mass while losing fat and get down to around 200 lbs. I seem to be the kind of person that can add mass (bad or good) pretty quickly. So if I can continue to progress as I have so far and add 10 lbs. of muscle in a year while lowering my BF to 15% or less, I'd be very happy. I guess time will tell.


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 Post subject: Excess Weight?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:15 am 
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Looking at the height and bodyweights of elte bodybuilders (5' 10" and 260 lbs on average), one wonders about their longevity and long-term health. Once upon a time, the motivations towards lifting was improving health, athletic performance and having an aesthetic body. Now there is a subculture that worships size for size's sake.

Old school bodybuilders like John Grimek were healthy well into their 80s. How will the current crop of bodybuilders stack up? Not nearly as well, I suspect.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:55 am 
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Fitz wrote:
Even though I never really lifted before, I'm not starting out as a skinny guy as I'm naturally moderately strong. When I started lifting I was about 6' 1", 215 lbs. with BF around 20%, I'm guessing. My goal is to add some lean mass while losing fat and get down to around 200 lbs. I seem to be the kind of person that can add mass (bad or good) pretty quickly. So if I can continue to progress as I have so far and add 10 lbs. of muscle in a year while lowering my BF to 15% or less, I'd be very happy. I guess time will tell.


Actually I think that makes a huge difference. I could be wrong, but my perception is that it is much harder to add new mass than to 'convert' fat into muscle mass. Anyone know more on this? Assuming I'm correct, then you should have an easier time leaning out than a 6' 150 guy would have gaining 30 some odd pounds of muscle. Again, I could be wrong.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:40 pm 
I said I would *LIKE* to be the guy who can eat anything. As it is strict diet is part of the extreme effort.

I think 150 at 15% is light for 6' unless you're an ecto. Height and weight charts say 155 to 185 for 5' 11" if I remember right and that is with a 12 to 18% bodyfat range. I am an endo/meso mix and at 5' 11", before I started weight lifting I had a 135 LBM. at 15% I would have weighed about 160. So you see it's going to be different for different people.

As for elite bodybulders, I think they are shorter and heavier. They loose down to their essential fats and gain back up to 10 or 12% all the time, and take steroids, HGH and who knows what else. They are probably going to die very young if they keep it up.

You can't "convert" fat to muscle. The reason you stay at a certan weight is because you are eating at that level. It is difficult to say which would be harder.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:42 pm 
Height/weight charts are useless. According to one chart at a height of 5'6" I should weight no more than 152 lbs. I weight 221 lbs, and while I'd like to lose about 15-20 lbs, I'm definitely NOT 73 lbs overweight.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:46 pm 
correction ... definitely not 69 lbs overweight


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:49 pm 
Also, I would agree that pro bodybuilders today are unhealthy, not because they're carrying a lot of lean mass, but because they commonly use a wide variety of performance enhancing drugs and diet severly before contests.


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