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 Post subject: Vegetarianism/Veganism
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 4:49 pm 
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Can someone talk to me about constructing a Vegetarian/Vegan diet for an active life style.

Pros and Cons would be appreciated.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 5:23 pm 
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Just do a search on "Vegan/Vegetarian Bodybuilding". I just did out of curiousity and found a ton of sites on this subject.
Tim


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 10:06 pm 
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finding a ton of sites and finding reputable sites are two different things. i posted on here because i know this site is reputable so i assumed the people that posted on the forum are as well.


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 1:13 pm 
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ice109 wrote:
Can someone talk to me about constructing a Vegetarian/Vegan diet for an active life style.

Pros and Cons would be appreciated.


You have to give your definition of an active life style - do you mean playing sports, daily activities, aerobic training, weight training or a combination or subset of the above?

If you're of a bodybuilding bent, this link points to a list of articles about vegetarianism and bodybuilding at BodyBuilder.com, a reputable web site. As for an actual daily vegetarian diet plan, you would do better to get a book on the subject. I've read this one and found it to be good. Several of the articles at Bodybuilding.com have sample menus - but the common thread is that you should eat 4-6 smaller meals a day rather than 3 large ones, and you should eat a wide variety of foods. If you need additional protein, you should drink smoothies based on soy protein and fruits.

As for the pros and cons of vegetarianism:

Pros: lower incidence of obesity, cardiovascular disease, diabetes and hypertension among vegetarians compared with the general population. (It should be noted that comparisons between groups based on diet alone (or any other single factor) have to be taken with a grain of salt.) Additionally, heavy consumption of fruits and vegetables is positively correlated to reductions in many types of cancer - no doubt due to their phytonutrients and antioxidants

Many vegetarians(particularly vegans) object to eating animals on moral/spiritual grounds. Others consider it be be ecologically wasteful to grow massive amounts of grain to feed animals for food. If either view describes you, it has to be listed in the "pros" column as well.

Cons: low protein quality and difficulty meeting caloric requirements. Especially for growing children, getting adequate calories from low calorie, bulky vegetarian fare is an issue. Also, vegetarian diets can cause a lot of bloating and gas among some people. Finally, eating a strict vegan diet will cause a vitamin b12 deficiency, since that vitamin only occurs in animal foodstuffs. A b12 deficiency can lead to pernicious anemia, which is a very serious, often fatal condition.

If you eat either eggs or dairy (or fish, like pesco-vegetarians do), you're covered for protein quality. If not, you have to combine vegetable proteins (1 portion beans/legumes to 2 portions grains, for example) to get a usable protein source. Or you have to eat soy protein, the only biologically complete vegetable protein source.

Disclaimer: I believe in a plant-centered diet, but not a vegetarian one. The best scientific evidence indicates that modern humans are ominvores. Our ancestors were hunter-gatherers who ate practically anything they could catch or pick. The human digestive tract is relatively shorter than that of a herbivore (like a cow) yet longer than that of a carnivore (like a cat).

As for which diet is best for optimum performance, I've seen a lot of anecdotal articles, but little serious scientific study to tackle the issue. The best advice is to keep your own training diary/journal and test out what works best for you.

Good luck.


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 11:32 pm 
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Good info. The PRO part might not be true. It is vegan vs nonvegan. So this includes lots of people who eat junk food, and don't exercise which skews results in the vegans favor.

Having known people who ate that way I can tell you many of them are actually what I would call "breadatarians", which isn't healthy at all.

So being vegitarian isn't healthier. It also isn't better for animals. More animals get ground up by combines and tractors, then are slaughtered for meat. If you compare the acres needed to support 1 meat animal vs the same number of acres used for crops.

Then if you examine Peta they look more like a terrorist group then a rights group.


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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 1:53 pm 
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I forgot to mention the possibility of iron deficiency as one of the cons to vegetarianism. Heme iron, which is in meats, is more bioavailable than the non-heme iron in grains, beans and vegetables. Not only is the non-heme iron less readily absorbed, but the high fiber of many vegetarian diets binds minerals like iron and removes them from body.


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:15 pm 
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Ironman wrote:
Good info. The PRO part might not be true. It is vegan vs nonvegan. So this includes lots of people who eat junk food, and don't exercise which skews results in the vegans favor.

Having known people who ate that way I can tell you many of them are actually what I would call "breadatarians", which isn't healthy at all.

So being vegitarian isn't healthier. It also isn't better for animals. More animals get ground up by combines and tractors, then are slaughtered for meat. If you compare the acres needed to support 1 meat animal vs the same number of acres used for crops.

Then if you examine Peta they look more like a terrorist group then a rights group.


Umm...this makes no sense. You might be semi-right about the "breadatarian" comment...but eating whole grains (not all white bread) is not necessarily a bad thing.

More animals get ground up by combines and tractors? I guess if you speak of insects that might be true. But are you talking about rodents? Birds? If so...I find that hard to believe, considering the world is 3 times more populated by farm animals than people. It also wreaks havoc on the environment with wasted resources to feed/water the animals...and the resources needed to maintain crops as opposed to livestock are dramatically smaller. And of course...animal excrements are more of a polluant in America than ALL other sources of polluation combined.

And trust me...if you've ever seen conditions at a factory farm, eating vegetarian is ALOT better for the animals. Groups like PETA and whatnot are very radical (perhaps a little too radical sometimes), but their intentions started out as good. I think they got tired of mainstream America dismissing what they were saying and SHOWING them. The meat has become contaminated with all sorts of drugs, and the animals literally eat their own waste after farms process it and redistribute it to the animals. Even if you do not care about the lives of the animals of the farms...most would be appalled about what is in the animals/what they are eating. And then of course...you are ingesting them as well.

Its funny you say a vegetarian livestyle is not healthier...because practically all research points otherwise. For instance, people in the Mediterranean typically follow a more plant based diet (not saying ALL are vegetarians) and they live on average the longest out of anyone in the world. And it's also ironic that with the rise of meat and dairy consumption in America, which has grown exponentially in the 20/21th century, a whole plethora of health problems has arisen in america (and the rest of the western world). Junk food is too a culprit, but so is going out to eat and eating a giagantic rack of ribs/steak/burger.

By the way...I am not saying I think you must be a vegetarian to be healthy. Eating lean meats like chicken and fish isn't necessarily good for you, but nor is it really that bad. It's just a way of sustenance, and eating fruits and veggies is the true way to be healthy. And...considering Vegetarian has the "VEG" in its title...most people would consider it safe to say that vegetarians tend to consume more fruits and veggies than the average meat eater in America.


Sorry for the rambling...this topic just gets me going!


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 1:27 pm 
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Well, there is nothing I can say, or research I can point you to that will do any good. It's already too late. You've been turned into a brainwashed drone. The BS is there to stay. The only way back is to be away from it for a long time and logic and reason will eventually take over. But I doubt that's going to happen any time soon.


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 2:30 pm 
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leif3141 wrote:
And it's also ironic that with the rise of meat and dairy consumption in America, which has grown exponentially in the 20/21th century, a whole plethora of health problems has arisen in america (and the rest of the western world).


Actually, meat and dairy consumption in this country has been declining over the last 30 years or so - but consumption of refined grains and sugars have gone way up. This was part of the rationale for the Atkins diet - to limit high glycemic carbs. Fast food, snack food and convenience food are packed with them. These types of foods, for the most part, aren't portion controlled. It's no big deal to eat 2000 calories in a supersized meal.

leif3141 wrote:
Eating lean meats like chicken and fish isn't necessarily good for you


The heme iron in meats and poultry, the omega 3 fatty acids in fish, and the vitamin B12 in all three ARE good for you.

There is little question that heavy consumption of fruits and vegetables improve one's overall health. But the jury is still out whether grains/beans are better than meat as a protein source. For me at least, the gas and bloating that the grain/beans combo gave me forces me to say "no". I eat them, but it's primarily as an adjunct for fiber and some B vitamins


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:52 pm 
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Ironman wrote:
Well, there is nothing I can say, or research I can point you to that will do any good. It's already too late. You've been turned into a brainwashed drone. The BS is there to stay. The only way back is to be away from it for a long time and logic and reason will eventually take over. But I doubt that's going to happen any time soon.


That's your comeback? I am a brainwashed drone? For your info, I have researched the hell out of the topic, for 2 research papers in college. My research wasn't from PETA.com or some crap like that...it was from experts in the field (people who write Scholarly Journals...the experts!)Don't lump me in with those who read a pamphlet and think that is the only info...I am not saying there are not downfalls to vegetarianism, but to say there are no benefits, as you were trying to do, is ludacris!


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:25 pm 
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leif3141 wrote:
...but to say there are no benefits, as you were trying to do, is ludacris!


Ludacris?;-)


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:52 pm 
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Stephen Johnson wrote:
leif3141 wrote:
...but to say there are no benefits, as you were trying to do, is ludacris!


Ludacris?;-)


LOL...yea I thought that looked wrong. Grammar was never my strong point!...did I mean ludicrous?!! Maybe next time I'll say.....funny!


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 5:44 am 
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Meat is good for you. Therefore not eating it must have no benefit. Sounds pretty logical to me.

I found not eating sugar and white flour and eating lots of meat to be very beneficial to me and others who tried it.

As for my comeback.... That's the only logical one when people spout off nonsense with religious fervor.


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 8:37 am 
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Ironman wrote:
Meat is good for you..


Red meats (beef, pork and lamb) are good for you in limited quantities. But there are questions about indiscriminate meat consumption:

Quote:
A large European study recently reported a strong link between eating high amounts of red meat and an increased risk of colorectal cancer. This finding supports and extends the results of several previous studies.


The key to a good diet is moderation.


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 1:21 pm 
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I've seen other studies that show that's not the case. The explanation of why 1 study did show a link was that nitrates or other additives may be the problem. When I hear about bodybuilders dying off droves because of colon cancer I'll be more likely to think there is something to it. The problem is according to one study or another just about everything causes cancer. So I kind of look at it like the little boy who cried wolf except for in cases where there is a very strong link like tobacco use.


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