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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:06 am 
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Apprentice
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With regard to the calipers, it isn't as complicated as needing to go to a university or something. You can buy a plastic set pretty easily and cheaply, and it comes with an illustrated instruction manual. You really only need to take from four or so sites, behind the arm, the lower stomach, next to your shoulderblade, in front of the bicep, and add all the measurements together. Then you look in the booklet for your gender and age, look along another side for your measurement, and then in the middle of those two it will give you your bodyfat percentage. I think that they are usually within 4% of your actual bodyfat percentage, give or take. This is according to one of the texts that I used for my classes.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:56 am 
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Powerlifting Ninja
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Halfbreed wrote:
With regard to the calipers, it isn't as complicated as needing to go to a university or something. You can buy a plastic set pretty easily and cheaply, and it comes with an illustrated instruction manual. You really only need to take from four or so sites, behind the arm, the lower stomach, next to your shoulderblade, in front of the bicep, and add all the measurements together. Then you look in the booklet for your gender and age, look along another side for your measurement, and then in the middle of those two it will give you your bodyfat percentage. I think that they are usually within 4% of your actual bodyfat percentage, give or take. This is according to one of the texts that I used for my classes.


The only good pair of plastic calipers that I have seen are the Slim Guide [http://exrx.net/Store/Other/SlimGuide.html].

A good technician can provide a fairly accurate reading with them. That becasue a good technician know what they are doing.

The majority of indiviuduals don't know what they are doing. Along with that the directions with the majority of calipers is rotten.

The directions give you a ball park method of using the calipers. "Gargabe in, garbage out" is what you get when it comes to getting an accurate reading.

Where did you get they are usually within 4% of you body fat percentage? That is a HUGE margin of error.

If so, a 200 lb athlete would have 8 more pounds of mucle or 8 more pounds of fat.

It would be the same as saying your scales can vary 4%. That means a 200 lb athlete would weight between 192 to 208 lbs. That is a 16 lb variance of what you may weigh.

That's insane!

Kenny Croxdale

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:48 am 
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Apprentice
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Kenny-

There is a difference in each method of getting bodyfat. Even if the method isn't accurate, if he took the measurements at the same sites in the same way, at the same time of day, it would still be a good way to measure his improvements, which was the purpose of getting them anyway.

As far as where I got the numbers from, I got them from a textbook titled Fit&Well, one used in one of my college health classes. There is a variance for each method, underwater, electronic, bod-pod, etc. A 4% variance is not very bad. Skinfold is is the best method to use if one is going to do it at home. Also, your not getting a variance in your weight, just in the percentage of bodyfat that you have. So if that 200lb athelite you were talking about got a measurement of 10% +/- 4%, he would either have between 6-14% bodyfat, with the extremes having a less probability of being true. So he would have between 12-28 lbs of bodyfat. Your scales are not giving you a percentage of variance for your weight, so I'm not sure if you are just using that as an example of what 4% means, or what. Either way, for the intended purposes, plastic calipers are a cheap and easy way to guage your progress.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:21 am 
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Powerlifting Ninja
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Quote:
Halfbreed wrote:
Kenny-

There is a difference in each method of getting bodyfat. Even if the method isn't accurate, if he took the measurements at the same sites in the same way, at the same time of day, it would still be a good way to measure his improvements, which was the purpose of getting them anyway.


With calipers there is a particular protocol established for measurement of each site. The problem instructions with the majority of body fat calipers is thay give you an approximate area to measure.

Therein lies the problem. "Garbage in garbage out." The "same sites" are not be measured.

It is the equvalent of weighing yourself on a set of scales in the morning and at night. You are going to get two different reading.

Secondly, to become proficient, it takes practice. A good technician can get a pretty accurate reading even with a cheap set of calipers.

Someone with little to now experience will get consistant inaccurate readings even with Lang calipers.

Third, you can't take you own readings on some of the body parts.

Quote:
As far as where I got the numbers from, I got them from a textbook titled Fit&Well, one used in one of my college health classes.


I appreciate that information. However, let me restate that 4% is a huge number. Again, that would mean that a 200 lb person would have 8 lbs more fat or 8 pouonds more muscle dependent on the reading.

Quote:
There is a variance for each method, underwater, electronic, bod-pod, etc. A 4% variance is not very bad.


Again, that would be like a 200 lb man/woman getting a scale and weight either 192 or 208. That is a huge difference.

So, what you are saying is that a 16 lb variance is "not very bad." I'd say it awful.

Quote:
Skinfold is is the best method to use if one is going to do it at home.


Not bad if you have someone who knows what they are doing.

Quote:
Also, your not getting a variance in your weight, just in the percentage of bodyfat that you have. So if that 200lb athelite you were talking about got a measurement of 10% +/- 4%, he would either have between 6-14% bodyfat, with the extremes having a less probability of being true. So he would have between 12-28 lbs of bodyfat.


A 12-28 lb variance of body fat is enormous! A 6-14% variance in body fat percentage is insane. There is a night and day difference between those readings.

Quote:
Your scales are not giving you a percentage of variance for your weight, so I'm not sure if you are just using that as an example of what 4% means, or what. Either way, for the intended purposes, plastic calipers are a cheap and easy way to guage your progress.


The scales are an example. Calipers do basically the same thing in being able to compute in pounds how much fat or muscle you have.

The majority of uneducated individuals using calipers are delusional. The majority come up with unreal number on what their body fat percentage is...meaning they believe their body fat percentage is much lower.

It reminds me of when I would take my blood pressure at times. I'd sit there taking the my reading until I got a number that I liked...lol.

That is what happens with the majority of those uneducated individuals. What you want is a trained technician with who is unbiased...meaning someone who will tell you the truth.

Kenny Croxdale

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:42 pm 
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Kenny-

You seemed determined to make an argument out of this when one isn't even necessary. Your results are not going to jump 4% +/-, but they are saying that your actual numbers could vary, although it will give you a general number. If you are going to gauge your progress, and you follow the directions, your numbers won't vary very much at all. So even if your actual numbers are a little different than what you are getting, the mean scores will remain the same, giving you an accurate reading of your improvement. Accuracy in the sense of your actual percentage doesn't really much matter, what does matter is that you are getting fairly consistent readings, and given that a person remains consistent in his or her procedures, consistent readings are very possible with plastic calipers. Whether or not I actually have 10 or 15 lbs of bodyfat I really woudn't care, as long as I know that I have lost 5 or 6 %.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:33 pm 
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Powerlifting Ninja
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Quote:
Halfbreed wrote:
Kenny-

You seemed determined to make an argument out of this when one isn't even necessary.


I am a bit anal when it come to providing training information. That is a good/bad thing.

Quote:
Your results are not going to jump 4% +/-, but they are saying that your actual numbers could vary, although it will give you a general number. If you are going to gauge your progress, and you follow the directions, your numbers won't vary very much at all. So even if your actual numbers are a little different than what you are getting, the mean scores will remain the same, giving you an accurate reading of your improvement. Accuracy in the sense of your actual percentage doesn't really much matter, what does matter is that you are getting fairly consistent readings, and given that a person remains consistent in his or her procedures, consistent readings are very possible with plastic calipers. Whether or not I actually have 10 or 15 lbs of bodyfat I really woudn't care, as long as I know that I have lost 5 or 6 %.


I agree that the numbers are mearly a gauge on how you are doing. However, others tend to look at it differently. They take those numbers to heart.

Also, the readings they with the plastic calipers will be a bit inconsistant. That because companies making those plastic body fat calipers give you a ball park idea of how to take a reading.

I believe most individuals would do better using a measuring tape.

Kenny Croxdale

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:01 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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If you're going to use calipers, it's got to be worth picking up a good pair and then learning how to use them. Getting a test done by a trained person, and getting instruction on how to use yours, is worth the cost in my opinion.

Kenny, what's a good tape measure system? I've seen a PDF of a US military method, but I lost it and haven't been able to track it down. A simple tape measurement method would be handy to know, so I can recommend it to people and use it myself.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:27 am 
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HI! have a look at my brief nutrition guide by scrolling down in the diet and nutrition section and try to stick with that for maximum energy levels for working out.

you dont want to reduce your calorie intake too much because then you will burn out from reducing your energy intake.

please let me know what you think.

nicole :0)


Vintage79 wrote:
Hi all,

I am trying to lose weight and build up some muscle! For the record, I weigh around 280lbs with very little muscle. Of course, the main goal is to get the fat off, but I also want to build up some muscle. I made myself a program that I think is ok, but could be improved. Here is what my day currently looks like:

09:00 Wake up

09:30 Breakfast - usually a bowl of muesli or oatmeal.

13:00 Small snack in preparation for the workout. Rye crisp-breads for example.

15:00 Workout (Always cardio + some low volume weight training 2-3 days per week)

16:00 Shower followed by a Slim Fast shake.

21:00 Dinner - Chicken/Salads/Baked Potato/Pasta/Fish/Beans etc.

01:00 Sleep



So, I have 4 meals per day and try to space them out. The main question is, should I be having the shake after exercising? I mean what is optimum? Should I have the 'Dinner' type meal earlier in the day? I read on ExRx that one should eat carbohydrates after a workout, but I thought this may apply mostly to muscle-building programs, rather than weight loss. I want to avoid eating too close to when I will sleep, but at the same time I don't want to be hungry when I go to bed as this usually results in waking up with a headache.

I lost 11lbs after doing this for 7 days, but it's always easy to lose weight at the start I think. I am now into week two, and I'm expecting a much smaller weight loss once my body adjusts. Also, as I build muscle, I'm aware that the loss of fat may not show up on the scales. I just want to make sure I eat at the most beneficial times. If you guys can offer any advice, or improvements to my schedule I'd be really grateful. :)

Thanks!


Martin



P.S. I'm not on a 'Slimfast' diet. I just wanted 4 meals per day, and one of their shakes seemed like a fast, easy to prepare meal which is also quite nutritious!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:55 am 
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Quote:
HI! have a look at my brief nutrition guide by scrolling down in the diet and nutrition section and try to stick with that for maximum energy levels for working out.


Nicole, why don't you post a link to the thread you're talking about so people don't have to go looking for it?

Stu


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:17 am 
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Powerlifting Ninja
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Quote:
Kenny, what's a good tape measure system? I've seen a PDF of a US military method, but I lost it and haven't been able to track it down. A simple tape measurement method would be handy to know, so I can recommend it to people and use it myself.


I cannot begin to explound on how STUPID the "US military method" is. Whoever came up with it was in idiot. The fact they continue to use it leads on to beieve military intelligence is an oxymoron.

"Stupid is as stupid does" certainly applies here.

The tape measure methods used by places like Curves works well. Meauring the chest, arms, waist, thighs...that usually give you a pretty good idea of how your doing.

Kenny Croxdale

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:26 am 
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n00b
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Hi!

Sorry about the delay i just saw your message today! here is the thread to my brief nutrition guide:

http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3506

nicole :0)



stuward wrote:
Quote:
HI! have a look at my brief nutrition guide by scrolling down in the diet and nutrition section and try to stick with that for maximum energy levels for working out.


Nicole, why don't you post a link to the thread you're talking about so people don't have to go looking for it?

Stu


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:33 am 
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Novice
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Hi Kenny - u have good inputs to almost all queries...but
u are not seen on DOc's forum anymore???


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:57 am 
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Kenny posted yesterday. http://drsquat.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ght=#22796


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