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 Post subject: help needed!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:06 pm 
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n00b
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Location: Devon, UK
I've been going to the gym every monday wednesday and thursday now for around a year and have been seeing only little gain for my efforts. After a bit of scan of the internet, for weight training tips, i recently found out that my method of using every machine in the gym, therefore working every muscle group each time i went, was very wrong for weight training for muscle size as i was not letting my muscle recover, so preventing their growth.....
(i hope this is right? - if not i apologise for my ignorance)

Using ExRx.net i have devised a new programme and was wondering if anyone had any advice or criticisims of it as i am not the most up to date on weigth training techniques etc.

I am 18 and currently 165lbs, with my main objective to improve muscle bulk on my upper body as my legs are fairly well developed from years of sports.

This is my new programme:
(for all exercises i do sets of 10, 8 and 6 reps of increasing weights)

Monday: Back and biceps
Back: bent over rows
wide grip pull ups
front pulldowns
shrugs
seated rear lateral raise

Biceps: narrow pull ups
incline curls
concentration curls
hammer curls

Wednesday: Chest and triceps
Chest: Chest press
bench press
seated flys
pullovers
Push ups
Lying flys

Triceps: Assisted dips
bench dips
kick backs
cable pulldowns

Thursday: Shoulders, Legs and abs
Shoulders: Shoulder press (machine and dumbells)
Lateral raises
upright rows
Legs: Leg press
squats
extensions
Abs: crunches (100)
side bends.

Sometimes i attend a forth day, either sunday or tuesday where i like to use the punch bag and go for a long swim.

If anyone would like to comment/criticise/advise this would be greatly appreciated and hopefully add to my programme.

As my diet probably lacks the sufficient amount of protein i have just started using whey protein powder, however i am unsure on the best times to use the powder and how much to use each time, any advice on this would be great!

Also when at the gym training 2 muscle groups, say back and biceps is it more beneficial to do all the back exercises then all the bicep ones or is it better to alternate them?

Thanks in advance...
James


Last edited by hindsight on Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:33 pm 
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Exalted Seer
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Apparently, a split where you work bodyparts once a week isn't working for you. For people who are starting out, they rarely do.

You might want to look here for a template for a full body workout. Do the workout two or three times a week on non-consecutive days.

At 18 you have a fast metabolism, so make it a point to eat for muscular gains, but eat clean. Fish, chicken, lean meats, lowfat dairy and eggs for protein, whole grains and beans for carbs, and lots of fruit and vegatables for vitamins and antioxidants. You also could add nuts and seeds (peanuts, sunflower seeds, almonds, ect) and oily fish (salmon, mackeral) for essential fats.

Others will stop by later to give you more specifics.

Good luck, and good training.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:38 pm 
Your probably doing a few too many excersizes. For example, you said your back/biceps day includes pull-ups, pull-downs and close-grip pull-ups (for biceps). These are all very similar. You might have better luck doing one type of pull-up/pull-down movement and one or two types of row.

Also, I wouldn't do leg presses before squats. If your going to do leg presses at all do them after squats.

I also noticed you do nothing at all for hamstrings. I recomend adding both strait-leg deadlifts and leg curls, even if this means dropping leg presses and extensions.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:49 pm 
Whey protien is fast digesting, so it's best taken before and after a workout. However don't consume more than 20 or 30 grams at one time, since there's a limit to how much the body can digest/absorb in one sitting.

PS.) As a general rule, try to consume at least one gram of protien (from whole foods and suplements) per pound of bodyweight each day. One of the easiest ways to do this is by eating three good meals a day plus protien supplements between meals.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:58 pm 
Also, how many sets are you doing for each excercise, and how many reps per set? Do you always do the same number of reps? If so, you may want to try varrying the number of reps you do from workout to workout.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:20 pm 
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n00b
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Location: Devon, UK
Stephen Johnson wrote:
Apparently, a split where you work bodyparts once a week isn't working for you. For people who are starting out, they rarely do.

You might want to look here for a template for a full body workout. Do the workout two or three times a week on non-consecutive days.

At 18 you have a fast metabolism, so make it a point to eat for muscular gains, but eat clean. Fish, chicken, lean meats, lowfat dairy and eggs for protein, whole grains and beans for carbs, and lots of fruit and vegatables for vitamins and antioxidants. You also could add nuts and seeds (peanuts, sunflower seeds, almonds, ect) and oily fish (salmon, mackeral) for essential fats.

Others will stop by later to give you more specifics.

Good luck, and good training.


Thank you very much for your advice, but i am unsure on one thing: you said that apparently a split workout doesn't work for me, however i have only been following this new workout for 2 weeks. The previous comment i made about not seeing much gain was concerning the workout i have been doing for the last 11 months or so where i was working all muscle groups everytime i visited the gym. Im sorry if i made this unclear!

Cheers for the advice Matt Z i will add the two leg exercises to my workout, and do squats before leg presses.
You said i should consider doing more row orientated exercises instead of pull ups/downs, unfortunately the gym i go to only has a limited number of machines, none of which involve rowing movements. Are there any dumbell exercises you can suggest apart from the bent over row?

In answer to your question i do 3 sets for each exercise, with reps of 10 then 8 then 6. However on the last set if i can manage to do another one/two reps i will often do it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:40 pm 
That's a lot of sets and reps considering how many execises your doing, and like I said there seems to be a fair amount of overlap. For example, bench presses and pushups work the same muscles in pretty much the same way.

You can do Dumbbell Rows one arm at a time leaning on a bench or bent over with a pair of dumbbells. You can also try doing dumbbell rows face down on an incline bench with a pair of dumbbells (kneeling on the seat). Bent barbell rows are also good. You can do these with a wide overhand grip or a somewhat narrower reverse grip.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:49 pm 
Also, if you don't want to eliminate an excercise completely, you could try alternating certain excercises. For example you could do pressdowns one week and kickbacks the next. This generally works better with single-joint isolation excercises than major compound lifts.

PS.) You might want to drop bench dips in favor of some sort of overhead extension. This will give you a deep stretch and hammer the long head of the triceps.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:51 pm 
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hindsight wrote:
Thank you very much for your advice, but i am unsure on one thing: you said that apparently a split workout doesn't work for me, however i have only been following this new workout for 2 weeks. The previous comment i made about not seeing much gain was concerning the workout i have been doing for the last 11 months or so where i was working all muscle groups everytime i visited the gym. Im sorry if i made this unclear!


Sorry, my mistake - I thought that you were doing a split routine all the while.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:25 am 
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n00b
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Location: Devon, UK
Matt Z wrote:
Also, if you don't want to eliminate an excercise completely, you could try alternating certain excercises. For example you could do pressdowns one week and kickbacks the next. This generally works better with single-joint isolation excercises than major compound lifts.

PS.) You might want to drop bench dips in favor of some sort of overhead extension. This will give you a deep stretch and hammer the long head of the triceps.


All taken on board! nice one!

With regard to the last question i asked, can anyone shed any light on whether it would be better in one gym session to alternate the exercises for the two muscle groups e.g. do curls for biceps then bent over rows for back then narrow pull ups for biceps etc.
OR should i aim to do all the back exercises in the first part of my session then all the bicep ones after (or vice versa)??


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:51 am 
Generally you want to train one muscle group at a time, UNLESS your training opposing muscle groups like chest/back, biceps/triceps, or quads and hamstrings.

For example, a good leg workout might include several strait-sets of barbell squats, followed by sissy squats superset with strait-leg deadlifts and leg extensions superset with leg curls. After that you can do some calf raises and go home.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:01 am 
Also, it's usually better to train larger muscle groups before smaller ones, compound movements before isolation work, and free-weights before machines. Of course there are exceptions to all three, but this is what works best for most people, most of the time.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:48 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:39 am
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Location: Valencia, CA
It's obvious, you are doing too many exercises. If you limited the exercises to three basic compound movements for the large muscle groups and just two for the smaller muscle groups you will grow. For example for the chest the flat bench press, incline bench press and the decline bench press. Drop the flies. For the biceps barbell curls and incline dumbbell curls is enough. If you limit your sets to 3 to 4 with the range of reps between 8 to 10 you will grow. At the rate you are going your body is using carbs and protein to fuel your marathon workouts.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:38 am 
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n00b
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Location: Devon, UK
ok i will limit my exercises to 2 or 3 exercises per muscle group. I thought that intensly working out each muscle group once a week by doing a wide range of exercises would be the best way to grow.

However after listening to the posts and doing the workout above for 3 weeks i think that maybe, considering my body type (ecto) and recovery rate, a push/pull 2 day split routine where i do 2 days on 1 off 2 on 2 off might be better for me...

does anyone have any comments?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:21 pm 
You can work a muscle group very intensely without a ton of volume if you work hard and make each working set count. Often doing many sets of many different exercises can hurt your intensity, because you'll hold a little back (whether you mean to or not) when you know you have a lot of sets ahead of you.


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