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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:34 pm 
I found a couple of websites that mention some exercises that should be avoided because of inherent injuries that can occur while performing them.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/betteru26.htm
http://www.bodyconcept.com/Body_Building_Articles/Why_You_Shouldn?t_Be_Using_These_Exercises_In_The_Gym_/a-574.html
http://www.ncoer.com/apft/2_Exercises_to_Avoid.html

are there any other exercises you guys would advise to stay away from?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:56 pm 
You can hurt yourself doing just about anything. That doesn't neccesarily make it a bad exercise. Also, what's bad for someone else, may be just fine for you, and vice versa.

For example, I avoid behind-the-neck presses and pulldowns, both because I have a family history of rotator cuff problems, and because I find these exercises somewhat akward and uncomfortable. However, I have no problem doing deep squats. Someone else might be completely comfortable doing behind-the-neck presses, but not be able to do squats without knee pain.

The point is you need to listen to your body. If you find one particular exercise akward, uncomfortable or painful, try modifying your form, or switching to another exercise.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:13 pm 
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Those links lead to probably some of the worst articles I've ever read. They rank right up there with the guys that were saying squats were bad for the knees. Let's look at this list, upright rows, deadlifts, presses behind the neck, good mornings. All of these are staples when breaking into O lifting, and O lifters have probably the healthiest shoulders around, along with the healthiest posterior chains around. B/hind Neck pulldowns, I won't comment, I've never done them. The whole question about the shoulders is simple, keep the shoulder girdle in balance, with move that use all range of motions. The problem is, most bodybuilders to day just go in , bench and curl, don't do much overhead work, and wonder why it is they get impingements. Work all planes of movement, equally, in pulling and pushing, and you will limit any chances that you will have rotator or impingement problems.
As to the DL and good morning, OMG, these are some of the best I know for the posterior chain, but lets look at the GM. Keep the weight as close as possible over your center of gravity, I.E. down on the lower traps, butt back, so that the bar is close to the vertical plane the knees are in, with the shins vertical. It's a matter of hip movement, with the hams kicking in at the upper insertionsBig time assistance move for us OL types. You WILL get in trouble if you just bend down in an arc with the bar way out in front. DL. well people get in trouble with this with their ego's , trying to lift more than they can by keeping the back flat. Do it right, don't go crazy, and you will be just fine.
Tim


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:28 pm 
ok, thanks for the info. i really enjoyed doing the upright rows and i actually noticed a change in my shoulders due to this exercise and i was scared about the "they are damaging in the long run" statement.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:08 pm 
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Incidentally (as in I am not claiming this to be scientifically sound but will say it anyway), when I was in high school throwing shot and discus, we used to train behind the neck pulldowns heavy (~200 lb.) and I never had any shoulder problems. We also did behing the neck presses.

I then came to college and took a year off from throwing but still lifted on and off. I tried out for the college track and field team and we did no pulldowns and no pullups (rows instead) and we did military presses. It was during this time that I hurt my shoulders.

Now you may say this is due to the college intensity versus high school intensity and that may be, but I am just sharing my experience.

Now, when I do behind the neck presses after not doing them, I feel a lot of stretch but if introduced slowly I think they are a good exercise.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:57 pm 
The worst fear of a personal trainer is having a client that they're training get injured.

The authors of the articles were practicing the PT equivalent of "defensive medicine" - eliminating exercises that can aggravate physical conditions more than the norm.

I avoided behind the neck pulldowns and presses even when I had good shoulders. Now that I don't - thanks to too much benching - I'm not going to pick them up now.

But upright rows don't bother my shoulders much - and they're more effective than lateral raises for targeting the lateral head of the deltoid, so I'll take my chances. And I'm hooked on deadlifts. When I started out lifting and got down on my miserable performances in the squat and bench press, the deadlift saved my ego! ;-)

Good mornings, though, I can live without. Old school fans notwithstanding, no way am I bending forward with a bar across my neck - especially since I can get much of the same action with a stiff legged deadlift.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:02 pm 
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Guest above was me - I was logged in, yet the system posted me as a guest. Maybe I wore out my welcome! ;-)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:05 am 
I hate when people talk about the deadlift as something you should avoid. For the longest time i avoided it, because i got frequent back aches and figured if i deadlifted i was an injury waiting to happen. Then the first time i tried it i had poor form and actually did end up tweaking my back. But after a while, I learned up on the form and decided to give it another go. Now today my lower back feels stronger than it ever has and i dont get those back aches anymore.

It can be a dangerous exercise if not done right, but you can say that for anything pretty much! I think one of the keys to not getting injured in the deadlift is to completely reset on every rep you do, ...even if you are doing multiple reps in a set. Lift, bring the bar down to the floor, ...then reset yourself like its the first rep and lift again. If you try cranking out rep after rep quickly just slamming the bar off the floor your form will most likely break somewhere along the way and drastically increase injury risk. But treating every rep like a single keeps you focused and concentrated on form the entire set.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:07 pm 
I've never had a problem doing touch-and-go reps on deadlifts, however I always lower the weight under control and stay tight throughout.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:40 pm 
Why are Deadlifts always considered a "dangerous" exercise? Maybe because you deadlift 200 lbs. and up -- and you 1-arm curl, what, around 40 and up? So it's 5X the weight.

But when I squat and deadlift, I'm on hyperintensive-form mode: No fooling around or carrying on a conversation!

But the ONLY time I hurt myself lifting (for 38 years now) was when I was doing backward curls and heard a "POP!" and my left shoulder, I think the front delt, went kaput. I couldn't lift my arm to take off my T-shirt. It took months to get back to normal.

SO: if you're feeling something weird, Put the Weight Down and Walk Away, and live to lift another day.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:53 pm 
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i think goodmornings are underrated and are one of my fav exrx for biceps femoris (hams) and erector spinae (lower back). good mornings and romanian deadlift are 2 of my staple exrx's. any exrx that anyone does is dangerous if technique is wrong and weight to much. when starting a new exrx i spend about 2-3 workouts getting technique as close to perfect and play with weight. for me squats are the most dangerous since i blew out my knee 14 months ago so i have to be extra careful.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:15 pm 
While there really are no bad exercises there definitely ARE some very dangerous variations of perfectly good lifts. For example, on multiple occations I've seen people doing barbell squats either directly in front of a bench or straddling one, sometimes with heavy weight. The idea is that you squat down until your butt touches the bench and then reverse directions. The problem is if you sit down too fast or fail mid-rep, you'll compress your spine. One girl in college said her coach told her to do squats that way.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:24 pm 
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That is called a box squat and is perfectly good exercise, not really any more dangerous than a standard squat.

If you sit down to fast in a regular squat, you also have a high likely hood of getting buried. If you fail mid rep your spotter should be there to help you or you should have the supports set and touch the bar down or drop it by leaning back.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:23 am 
Also they should be done using powerlifting form, not standard squats. It's a little wider stance and it is kind of like sitting on the toilet. It's really just for powerlifters.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:36 am 
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It really isnt just for powerlifters. They are prescribed often in sports programs.

By sitting back rather than down you engage the glutes and the hamstrings more than the quads, translating to superior athletic strength.

Not to say full squats should not also be performed at some time for flexibility but there is something to be said for moving the most weight with the biggest most important muscles.

They are also done with a pause, not touch and go. By stopping on the box and then starting the ascent, you teach your body to have concentric explosiveness. This has tremendous carryover into the start of a deadlift, the beginning of the ascent out of the hole in a squat, a pull off the floor in an olympic lift, or countless sports applications like offensive lineman coming out of a stance.


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