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I was reading on this website power tidbits page regarding impaired power development during the eccentric and concentric phase, that to develop strength and muscle, it's better to power lift. I was taught by a triainer to lift in a 3-1-3 ratio, that is, lift for three seconds, hold for one second, then lower for three seconds.His reasoning is the muscle/muscles can lengthen better and build up better when lifting in this manner, not to mention less chance of injury by lifting slow. I am interested in comments on which is a better method to build and strengthen muscles.

Yes, you can use that method. That would be best for mass if you have hit a plateau. You will gain some strength as well. However, the most effective way to gain strength is to just lift heavy. After a few warm up sets, show no mercy - load up the bar. You should do multiple sets (5-8) of fewer than 4 reps each. If power is what you're looking for, speed is key. Get the bar up in as little time as possible. Maximum exertion in the least amount of time. The 3-1-3 method is NOT for power.

Agreed.

I did a google search on "weight training strength vs power" and found this article, titled "Dispelling the Common Fallacies of Power and Strength Training." Of interest is this:

Bob,

Strength has many faces. Strength is often referred to as force. To lift an 100 lb object, you need to produce more than 100 lbs of force, strength.

If the most you can lift is 100 lbs (your 1RM--1 repetition max), this is you Limit Strength.

Power is Force X Distance/Time (Distance Divided by Time). "Since the terms force and strength are often used interchangeably and distance divided by time is the same thing as speed, power can more simply be defined as strength multiplied by speed. Therefore,

Strength x Speed = POWER." http://www.strengthcats.com/plyobenchpress.htm

Speed is simply how fast you can go. Like limit strength it is fairly easy to understand. A car that can go 60 miles in a hour is traveling at a speed of 60 miles per hour.

Lifting heavy loads will increased your limit strength. Slow movements such as your "3-1-3 ratio" minimize momentum. With no momentum, the muscle has to works harder and your strength inceases. That providing that you tax the muscles involved with heavy loads, 85% plus of 1RM. Low reps (1-5), high sets (8 set plus) and 3 minutes rest periods increase Limit Strength.

If you you max lift is 100 lbs, then you'd want to train with 85 lbs or more.

The foundation of power and speed are built on strength. Thus, a novice will increase their power and speed, initially by increasing their strength.

However, as Stephen Johnson noted in his post, doing nothing but lifting heavy weights all the time will make you stronger but at you will become slower.

At some point, to increase your power you need to incorporate moderate loads in which drive them up with a great deal of speed.

Loads of between about 48-62% of 1 RM are recommended as a means of increasing your power in most exercises. Reseach: DANIEL BAKER, STEVEN NANCE and MICHAEL MOORE. 2001: The Load That Maximizes the Average Mechanical Power Output During Jump Squats in Power-Trained Athletes. The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research: Vol. 15, No. 1, pp. 92–97.

Again, if your 1RM is 100 lbs, to develop power you would want to train with 48 lbs to 62 lbs for about 1-3 reps per set.

Power movements should be kept to about the same number of sets and reps as Limit Strength sets, 1-5 reps, 8 set plus, with rest sets of 3 minutes or longer.

The difference between training for Limit Strength and Power is your training percentage. Let me reiterate, for Power the load need to be between 48-60% of your 1RM and with Limit Strength training your load need to be 85% or higher of your 1RM.

In your power movement, you need to get some type of bounce out of the hole. This elicits/develops the stretch reflex.

The stretch reflex in the body acts like rubber bands. When stretched quickly the muscles stretch back faster, producing more power. Research show you can produce up to 18% more power when you use the stretch reflex.

As an example let take a standing jump. When you bob down before jumping, you elicit the stretch reflex. Doing so propels you higher/further than if you had justed from a static/dead stop position.

The same thing works in your weight training. You want to get some type of bounce out of the hole of a squat, bounce off the chest in a bench press, etc.

To maximize your strength, you want to employ limit strength, power and speed movements at some point in your training.

Kenny Croxdale

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Thanks TimD.

I re-read the post a couple of times.(A great post BTW) If i understand it correctly, to increase power and speed i should lift between 48%-62% of my limit strength, which in turn will develop power, strength and muscle. Looks like i need to chage my lifting habits! I have to be careful at my age not to get too eager! When you refer to limit strength, is that one rep in full ROM with good form. no straining?

Awsome post

Is there any chance we can sticky Kenny's post. I was totally unaware of the lower weight for developing power.

Kenny, could you perhaps tidy this up a little and maybe add a summary with a few bullet points.

Bob, I re=read your last post and think you might want to re-read kenny's again. The lower percentages (50-60%), down in lower reps with maximum force/speed are used to develope power. For mass, the heavier weights are used for , for lack of a better word, mass with the slower tempo's. Kenny's point being, there is no one size fits all for training methods as strength has many facets to it. As to the tempo's, lifting speeds, here is an explanation of the slower tempo's and why they are used. Keep in mind, this is from a "mass" standpoint, and is NOT necesarily the way to o for limit strength OR power.
http://www.gain-weight-muscle-fast.com/ ... ining.html
BTW, I'll PM Kenny and see what he wants to do with his posting. Good stuff as usual.
Tim

You may want to research the Westside Barbell (Louie Simmons) training methods. They incorporate power and strength into one training schedule/routine. I trained using the Westside principles years ago and I saw some awesome results (for a beginner). I've recently started implementing them again for overall strength gains.

Your limit strength is the measure of how much you can push or pull in a movement be it a full range or partial movement.

Limiit Strength means giving everything you've got...straining is definitely involved.

As an example, a powerlifting squat is a half squat. Thus, powerlifter measure how much limit strength the have in the half squat.

Kenny Croxdale

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Thanks TimD.

I didn't mean that my age is a drawback. I enjoy workiong out, but with lots of wear and tear on the joints through years of sports and with a bad back, i need to be careful. One more thing about limit strength.Isn't that example going to change depending on the exercise? For example, my limit strength might be 150# for the bench press and 90# for a barbell curl. Or is there a standard exercise by which you measure limit strength. Tryng to get educated.

Simmons has added a new dimension to lifting. The West Side program works and is a good one. However, Simmons often presents incorect information and training principles.

Simmons has often stated that you can develop as much power when using lighter loads in the squat and bench press as with any other lifts. This is incorrect.

Research (Dr John Garhammer) shows that the squat and bench press produce at best, 50% of the power output of the Olympic movements.

Power output of a squat is 12 watts per kilo of body weight. Olympic pulls are produce up to 52.6 watts per kilo of body weight.

Thus, squatting and bench pressing with lighter loads to develop power is tantamount to using a crescent wrench to drive a nail in a board. It work but it not the best tool for the job.

Olympic movements and other similar exercises are the equivalent of using a heavy hammer to drive a nail in a board. This is a better tool for increasing power.

In the West Side box squat, you sit back on the box, stopping the movement. Simmons states that is ok because the stretch reflex is maintained up to 4 seconds. This is incorrect.

Research shows (Wilson) that 50% of the stretch reflex is lost in one second. So, sitting back on the box kills the stretch reflex...kills power.

To evoke the streetch reflex, a quick transition from eccenttric movement to concentric contraction must take place. That means you need to have some kind of bounce out of the hole in the squat.

The poster children for power training are Olympic Lifters. They incorporate power and speed training along with limit strength training.

Olympic Lifters are some of the strongest and most powerful athletes on the plane.

A great research article that demonstrates this is:
JEFFREY M. MCBRIDE, TRAVIS TRIPLETT-MCBRIDE, ALLAN DAVIE and ROBERT U. NEWTON. 1999: A Comparison of Strength and Power Characteristics Between Power Lifters, Olympic Lifters, and Sprinters. The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research: Vol. 13, No. 1, pp. 58–66.

Kenny Croxdale

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Thanks TimD.

A bench press and curl are like apple and oranges. You can only compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

Kenny Croxdale

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Thanks TimD.

I agree that not all of Simmons' suggestions are perfect. I incorporate his techniques into my training program but not to a 'T'. However, for Bob's purposes, and without getting technical, it's fine.

Squats work the legs and back. Bench press work the shoulders, triceps, and chest. So, these exercise are not total body movements.

I break things up. I work squats one day. Bench press another. So, I don't perform a total body workout all in one training session.

Tim likes peforming a total body workout all in one session. So, there are different philosophies on training.

Complex exercises such as squats, deadlifts, bench press, bent over rows, etc involve the big muscles and more muscle groups. They are more productive exercises.

Powerlifting measures limit strength. Heavy squats, bench pressing and deadlifting build strength.

Box squats with lighter loads build power but not to the extent Olympic movements do.

I perform box squats with a slight bounce off the box to increase power. I also udtilize Olympic pulls and kettlebells swings, which are power movements.

You need to be strong in Olympic Lifting. However, much more power is required in Olympic Lifting than powerlifting.

Garhammer's and McBride's researh articles demonstrate that Olympic Lifters possess strength, power and speed.

Yessis and Hatfield noted in their plyometric training ebook that most Olympic Lifters "will usually beat the sprinter in the first 5-10 yards."
Plyometric Training-Hatfield/Yessis.

Plyometric Traiining--Hatfield/Yessis goes into a lot of what I have gone over. I have the ebook.

I can email a copy of Plyomtric Training to anyone interesed in this information.

Kenny Croxdale





I need a dude like kenny to make me a workout schedule haha mine just dont seem that...intense. haha[/quote]

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Thanks TimD.

I agree that for Bob purpuse, it will work for the most part.

What I am saying is don't believe everything that someone writes. That includes the information that I post as well.

Make them provide research data that backs up their statement.

Then, do your own research to make sure the data is correct.

Sometimes after reading a reseach article that I question, I go to the library and look up the resources that are quoted.

I spent one afternoon at the Cal State Library in Fullerton, CA going over the resources quoted in the article.

What you often get is a better understanding, more indepth data.

You also fine out if someone is bending the information to present their view point or providing you with unbiased information.

Kenny Croxdale

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Thanks TimD.