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 Post subject: The value of 1RM lifts
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:38 pm 
Is there any real benefit in performing 1RM lifts, compared to a 2RM or 3RM sets? Obviously, powerlifters and Olymic weightlifters need to do 1RM lifts to prepare themselves for competitions, but is there any real benefit for those who don't lift competetively? Also, is there any truth to the notion that a 1RM is somehow inherantly more dangerous than a 3RM or a 5RM?

I ask this because for years I've avoided attempting 1 rep or even 2 rep maximum lifts. Of course, occationally I may attempt a 3RM and fail to complete the 3rd rep, but this isn't really a true 2RM, since the first two reps may have been fairly easy.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:24 pm 
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I see no real value in doing a 1 RM lift unless you are a competitor, or maybe just to find out what it really is. There are various charts that let you calulate it based on various RM's, but in my experience, they really don't hold true. If you are training for a 1 RM, then occasional get spotters, and do them. And no, I don't see that trying out a 1 RM is any more dangerous than trying out and rep RM. It's the last one that will expose you to possible injury. Get spotters for whichever range you are going to max out on.
Case in point. A few years back, a bodybuilder with the the WBF (World Bodybuilding Federation-now defuct- under Vince McMahon) , Tom Platz, held a squat challenge with Dr. Fred Hatfield, Doc Squat, who was also an advisor to the WBF and a former IPF Pwer lifting champion. Platz blew him away with reps, but Hatfield blew him away with total poundage. It all depends on how you train, as to what your 1 RM is going to be. Who was stronger" Well, that's debatable. Platx was as far as an endurance thing went, and Hatield was as far as a total went. Point is, what is your goal? If it's hypertrophy (which in your case, this is one of your goals), no reason at all to max out at a 1 RM. If it's strength, then you may want to, occasionally, but in your case, as strength seems to play a part, I'd definately work up to a hard but doable 1-3 Rep lift periodically.
Tim


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:26 pm 
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the best way to build strength is with low reps (1-5), high intensity, and high sets. This is called 'greasing the groove'.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:43 pm 
I'm already sold on low reps. I regularly (every few weeks) attempt maximal lifts in the 3-5 rep range (usually a 3RM). I'm just currious if a 1RM has any practical advantage over a 3RM.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:11 pm 
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TimD wrote:
maybe just to find out what it really is.


This is why I do it. And I think there was a study done in prisons that 1RM lifting is actually more dangerous... let me see... yeah sorry this paper

http://www.correctionalhealth.org/resou ... mtmann.pdf

is very interesting (as a sociology experiment), but doesn't exactly apply to freeperson lifting since it's your body to choose what to do with, as opposed to the goverment being charged with a prisoner's body.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:05 pm 
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I feel like 1RM and 2RM give you exponential returns on your technical ability.

When you are doing higher weights for 1 rep, there is no time to feel out your form, you have to have it tight from the moment you start to the moment you finish the lift, and you have to know it isnt going to give out otherwise you are going to miss the lift for mental reasons.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:35 pm 
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Ryan A wrote:
I feel like 1RM and 2RM give you exponential returns on your technical ability.

When you are doing higher weights for 1 rep, there is no time to feel out your form, you have to have it tight from the moment you start to the moment you finish the lift, and you have to know it isnt going to give out otherwise you are going to miss the lift for mental reasons.


That's a good point, it could be used as a litmus test for whether you have the proper form to withstand the maximal amount you can handle strengthwise. Of course, if your form lets you down it would be good to have (a) spotter(s).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:13 am 
I train almost exclusively with 1rm (or a high % thereof). I feel that this is the most effective way for ME to train max strength and strength endurance.

I employ a single rep per minute for 20 minute routine (90% 1RM or higher) OR a single rep per 1/2 minute routine (80-90% 1RM). I use this on squats, deads or complexes like power clean/push press, power clean/ohp/front squat, etc.

I test my new 1RM every 6 to 8 weeks.

It builds the strength definitely and doing this 2 or 3 times a week also increases the work capacity and conditioning side of it too.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:15 am 
Hoister ... Do you get a lot of soar joints, tendonitis, ect. I've read in many sources (both bodybuilding and powerlifting related) that training heavy all the time places a tremendous strain on the body.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:27 am 
Not exactly on topic, but those 1rm calculators suck. Ive put in my 6 or 8 rep max, then my 2RM and the higher rep number is always significantly bigger. Those things are only accurate if you enter in NO MORE than a 3RM imo. It says use any rep number up to 10, but thats horseshit! If i put in my 10RM it would probably give me a 1RM thats 30 lbs heavier than what i can really do. And it is not a result of me working in the higher rep range, i rarely ever go over 6 reps.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 11:02 am 
Matt Z,

No - actually the opposite, i my joints are significantly better since training this way. I used to have problems with knees and shoulders due to mma and hockey injuries, wear and tear.

The key is to allow enough rest between the heavier singles to perform the reps with control and perfect form. I use the every minute or every 1/2 minute intervals as a guideline for this reason.

I've done marathon sessions where i do a rep every minute on the minute for as long as i can complete the reps with good form and gone as long as 50 minutes to an hour.

The only drawback to this type of training is that as well-conditioned as it makes you, you still need to take a break from it every now and then to recover.

It's not for everyone, that's for sure. I've seen some serious atheletes puke and give up on this style of training. It is very demanding, but very beneficial - at least to my goals and objectives.

-Hoister


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 11:04 am 
Jeff D - the only way to determine your one rep max is to go ahead and test it. I've seen some people use the calculators and take them for gospel, only to nearly kill themselves or cause serious injury.

I stay away from them, personally.

-Hoister


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:04 pm 
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Indeed, the calculators are flawed, but if you're working with your 2 or 3RM anyway you should have a good enough idea of what your 1RM is. Besides, it is generally thought that one can perform about three 1RM attempts in a workout, so upping the weight 5lbs or whatever after a successful lift is viable.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:28 pm 
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Well the calculators are an average of all people.

If you are dominantly more type i fibers than type ii fibers then you will be swayed one way or the other when you enter top reps.

type one (red) are better at endurance, so if you are this, you can probably perform more reps with 80% than average therefore, an 8RM will give you a 1RM that is too high.

type two (white) are better at high intensity so in this case, you would do fewer reps with 80% than average and therefor, your 8RM would give you a 1RM that is too low.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:56 pm 
Ryan A wrote:
Well the calculators are an average of all people.

If you are dominantly more type i fibers than type ii fibers then you will be swayed one way or the other when you enter top reps.

type one (red) are better at endurance, so if you are this, you can probably perform more reps with 80% than average therefore, an 8RM will give you a 1RM that is too high.

type two (white) are better at high intensity so in this case, you would do fewer reps with 80% than average and therefor, your 8RM would give you a 1RM that is too low.


Ryan, im not too familiar with all the muscle fiber stuff. So if im a type 1 guy, does that mean it'll be harder for me to raise my 1 rep maxes as opposed to someone with more type 2? Basically what im saying is are type 1's more cut out for bodybuilding whereas type 2's would be better suited for powerlifting? Or does it not matter??


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