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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:28 pm 
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Stephen Johnson wrote:
...
Of course, that's not as bad as what happened to Marion Jones:

Quote:
Her reputation is gone and now so are Marion Jones' Olympic medals.

Jones gave back the five medals she won at the Sydney Olympics on Monday and agreed to forfeit all other results dating back to Sept. 1, 2000, further punishment for her admission that she was a drug cheat.

The three gold medals and two bronzes were turned over to U.S. Olympic Committee and U.S. Anti-Doping Agency officials at her attorneys' office in Austin, Texas. They are en route to USOC headquarters in Colorado Springs, and the USOC will return them to the International Olympic Committee.

....



I'd like to understand why the IOC won't just make drug testing a pre-requisite to accepting a medal. That way, all medal winners will know they will be tested. If all three medal winners tested positive, the fourth to six place winners will then have to be tested to be awarded their medals.

The current method of random testing means there is enough chance an athlete will not be tested - so it might take years or never to be discovered. That's enough of an incentive to take the risk.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:47 pm 
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In Memoriam: TimD
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Well, I didn't follow the Jones issue that closely, but I do know she as training under/with/or getting "supplements" from Balco, and was indrectly linked via Balco to Bonds and others. I don't know whether it was the lack of testing within the IOC, or the "designer drugs: Balco was associated with that could beat a test because there currently was no test that could detect this new substances.
Tim


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:57 pm 
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tostig wrote:
I'd like to understand why the IOC won't just make drug testing a pre-requisite to accepting a medal. That way, all medal winners will know they will be tested. ...


http://www.cbc.ca/sports/columns/top10/cheats.html

I think about Ben Johnson. He was a Canadian hero until he got caught. Then it turns out that most of the rest of the field cheated too.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:47 pm 
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I agree with Kenny on this. Steroids are safe for adult males who have done extensive research or who have the aid of a doctor. I have talked to plenty of guys that have used steroids. That said there are plenty of bad things that can happen if you don't know what you are doing. Besides that some steroids are safer than others. For example any of the testosterones usually just cause a little water retention and some acne. You might need an aromatase inhibitor if your nipples start to feel funny, but no big deal. Where as deca and tren have more complicated sides you have to counter. They also require a more complex post cycle therapy.

There are some drugs like var and even low doses of deca females can take without getting masculine features. I don't know much about it though because I have never talked to a female user. There aren't very many of them around.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:14 pm 
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I don't know much about it though because I have never talked to a female user. There aren't very many of them around.

You would never know it was a women if you saw it because of how masculine she would look! j/k


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:28 pm 
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You can add New York's Finest to the list of organizations that ban steroids:

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The NYPD will begin random steroid tests of cops in the wake of a sensational scandal that tainted as many as 27 officers and led to a Brooklyn druggist blowing his brains out, The Post has learned. "Steroid use for nonmedical reasons is illegal, and, to reinforce that, the department will begin testing for it," a police spokesman said.

Police Commissioner Ray Kelly, who decided to institute the tests, will have to come up with $1 million annually to carry out the program, which is a first for the department. Any one of the 35,800 Finest who fails a test faces suspension and possible dismissal.

Under previous procedures, cops were tested for a variety of drugs - including heroin, cocaine, marijuana, ecstasy, barbiturates and amphetamines - when they joined the department and when they ended their probation. After that, they faced random tests for those drugs. Tests for steroids, which aficionados use to bulk up, were conducted only if there was a complaint or suspicion that the officer was abusing "the juice."

Beginning in the summer, when the money becomes available, steroid tests will become a regular part of the NYPD's regimen.

Kelly decided to implement the testing after the NYPD was hit by a scandal last October, when cops raided Lowen's Pharmacy in Bay Ridge and found $7 million worth of steroids and human-growth hormone.

Client lists seized from the pharmacy - whose name came up in the probe of steroid use by major-league baseball players - identified 27 NYPD cops as customers.

Seven of them failed steroid tests. They were forced to turn in their guns and badges, and were given desk jobs while they await departmental charges.


Bottom line: steroids are illegal. Most employers take a dim view of their employees breaking the law using illegal drugs, and will fire employees on the juice if they get caught.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:26 am 
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what a great idea cops taking roids!!! They would chase down everyone they would be faster strong and bigger.... thats what we need. hahaha


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:54 am 
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Would you give them to our troops, too?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:00 am 
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Quote:
Ironman wrote:
I agree with Kenny on this. Steroids are safe for adult males who have done extensive research or who have the aid of a doctor. I have talked to plenty of guys that have used steroids. That said there are plenty of bad things that can happen if you don't know what you are doing.


I agree. It reminds me of how many guns kill people each year.

A gun by itself never killed anyone. It the idiot with the gun that shoots himself or someone else.

I don't own a gun for just that reason...so I don't shoot myself or someone else.

Quote:
Besides that some steroids are safer than others. For example any of the testosterones usually just cause a little water retention and some acne.


Good point. Anadrol produces over night results but it is also very had on the body.

Quote:
Where as deca and tren have more complicated sides you have to counter. They also require a more complex post cycle therapy.


Deca is one of the mildest steriods there is. Anavar is one if not the safest.

Anavar is prescribed to AIDS patients for just that reason. However, the pharmacutical companies have jacked up the price because of the demand.

Michael Mooney (does medical AIDS/co-wrote "Built To Survive" for AIDS patients) and Dr Maurio DiPasquale are two individuals who have been quite vocal about how drug companies are taking advantage of AIDS patients.

Tren is supposed to be a little harder on the body. However, I am not familiar with it enough to comment.

There are some drugs like var and even low doses of deca females can take without getting masculine features. I don't know much about it though because I have never talked to a female user. There aren't very many of them around.

Yea, Deca and Primbolin is one that is recommended and used by women. I don't know any thing about "var."

Kenny Croxdale

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:07 am 
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I'd say hell yea. Give it to our troops but in moderation. I mean if they want it that is. Also long term study on it to know what actual long term effects are would help. A lot of people msyelf included are afraid of roids I don't know how they effect people. I don't know what it would do to me. I assume I'd get bigger and stronger but longevity and being healthy to me is very important. Not to mention troops using them but didn't hitler's blitzkreig army take some stuff? I heard they were all messed up on chemicals? look how effective they were. I mean they were effective for the wrong reason but you can't deny what they did. I say use it where we need it. The government is always trying to have a better military if all of our soldiers were stronger faster and able to do more maybe it would be worth it. I really don't know. Steroids are like religion and politics a very touchy subject.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:57 pm 
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The way I see it, steroids are like any other class of perscription drug. They all have risks and side effects (some worse than others). For someone with a legitamate disease or disorder, the benefits often justify these risks, but for healthy men and women it's difficult to make that argument.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:07 pm 
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Quote:
For someone with a legitamate disease or disorder, the benefits often justify these risks, but for healthy men and women it's difficult to make that argument.

I see what your saying, there is risks with anything. There is a chance that you are gonna get in to a car accident and die instantly. But the risk is so minimal that people will drive anyways. The argument for healthy people is that risks are next to nothing and they are confident nothing bad (physically) will happen to them. And their desire to look better physically outweighs the potential consequences.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:03 pm 
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ironmaiden708 wrote:
The argument for healthy people is that risks are next to nothing and they are confident nothing bad (physically) will happen to them. And their desire to look better physically outweighs the potential consequences.


You're only taking the physical consequences of taking steroids into consideration. What about the legal, social and economic consequences?

If you are caught using steroids, you could be convicted of a felony. But even if you aren't convicted, employer knowledge of your involvement with illegal drugs could jeopardize your job. If you have a family to support, it is irresponsibly vain for you to risk your livelihood just on the desire to look better physically. And if it became common knowledge that you got "the look" from taking drugs, how much admiration do you think that you'll get from your acquaintances? If they're normal people, not much.

There is almost zero probablility that a Joe Six Pack can get a legit medical doctor to prescribe him steroids just for the sake of looking better. Anyone who seeks steroids will be forced to get them in the black market, where he has to come in contact with criminal elements. There , he runs the risk of getting ripped off or getting contaminated gear. And if his dealer goes down, the dealer will take Joe Six Pack with him.

But if anyone still wants to take steroids to look good, cool. Just hope that you don't end up looking good in jail.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:15 am 
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Kenny Croxdale wrote:
Quote:
Ironman wrote:
I agree with Kenny on this. Steroids are safe for adult males who have done extensive research or who have the aid of a doctor. I have talked to plenty of guys that have used steroids. That said there are plenty of bad things that can happen if you don't know what you are doing.


I agree. It reminds me of how many guns kill people each year.

A gun by itself never killed anyone. It the idiot with the gun that shoots himself or someone else.

I don't own a gun for just that reason...so I don't shoot myself or someone else.

Quote:
Besides that some steroids are safer than others. For example any of the testosterones usually just cause a little water retention and some acne.


Good point. Anadrol produces over night results but it is also very had on the body.

Quote:
Where as deca and tren have more complicated sides you have to counter. They also require a more complex post cycle therapy.


Deca is one of the mildest steriods there is. Anavar is one if not the safest.

Anavar is prescribed to AIDS patients for just that reason. However, the pharmacutical companies have jacked up the price because of the demand.

Michael Mooney (does medical AIDS/co-wrote "Built To Survive" for AIDS patients) and Dr Maurio DiPasquale are two individuals who have been quite vocal about how drug companies are taking advantage of AIDS patients.

Tren is supposed to be a little harder on the body. However, I am not familiar with it enough to comment.

There are some drugs like var and even low doses of deca females can take without getting masculine features. I don't know much about it though because I have never talked to a female user. There aren't very many of them around.

Yea, Deca and Primbolin is one that is recommended and used by women. I don't know any thing about "var."

Kenny Croxdale



Var is anavar, the same one you were just talking about. Very mild indeed. It's great for strength gains or getting lean.

Deca may be mild in some ways, however many guys have sexual problems with that. You of course have to take a testosterone with it because it can really shut you down. You may need cabergoline to aid with sexual problems. Plus nandralones are progesterone-like and you may need it for prolactin levels as well. You are likely to need hgc for post cycle therapy. So much more involved than just test. But I didn't mean to say it was anywhere near as harsh as trenbalone or anadrol.

Then with females it's a different story. It's more compatible with their natural hormones. Deca does tend to lubricate the joints too. That is helpful since people frequently over do it when they're on.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:44 am 
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Quote:
Var is anavar, the same one you were just talking about. Very mild indeed. It's great for strength gains or getting lean.


I appreciate you providing that information. I will look it up.

Quote:
Deca may be mild in some ways, however many guys have sexual problems with that. You of course have to take a testosterone with it because it can really shut you down. You may need cabergoline to aid with sexual problems. Plus nandralones are progesterone-like and you may need it for prolactin levels as well. You are likely to need hgc for post cycle therapy. So much more involved than just test. But I didn't mean to say it was anywhere near as harsh as trenbalone or anadrol.


In my 10 years of being around Deca, I had any sexual problems, nor in trading information with other lifters, I never hard of any such problems.

I have yet to read any information that support your statement that Deca may cause esxual problems.

Also, good results can be obtained from taking Deca alone. However, "stacking" Deca with another steriod such as depotestosterone has a synergistic effect.

Perhaps a better analogy would be that 2 + 2 = 5. The sum being greater than it parts.

HCG, for those unfamiliar with it, is used to help the body start reproducting testosterone once they come off a steriod. When taking a steroid the body's producing testosterone decreases.. Thus. when one comes off a steroid, the ther is some down time until the body starts to making it again.

HCG re-established testosterone production in the body. Clomid is another medication that preforms the same task as HCG.

With that said, I never took HCG. It may have helped me restore my testosterone production, however I never had any problems in that area.

While some athletes took/take HCG or Clomid, many do not. In my view, taking one of these medication has some similarity to taking something for a cold.

Your body will heal itself of a cold let's say in a 6 days. If you take medication to cure it. If you take medication for your cold, you are well in 4 days. I don't see the point in taking medication for a cold or HCG/Clomid for that reason.

Quote:
Then with females it's a different story. It's more compatible with their natural hormones. Deca does tend to lubricate the joints too. That is helpful since people frequently over do it when they're on.


Excellent point. "Another benefit of nandrolone use often reported is the pain-free workouts because nandrolone lubricates the joints."
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catdeca.htm

A site that provides really good information on this subject is:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catsteroids.htm

Kenny Croxdale

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