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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:23 pm 
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You also don't need a bench. Plenty of work to be done without it. Even heavy chest can be done with weighted dips. The best back exercises don't require a bench. Arms and shoulders don't need a bench. Legs don't need a bench.
By what you are saying it seems that you really don't need a barbell either. Accually you don't need to buy any weights at all you could just 'do it like a caveman' and move stones around to build strength. Technically you still are a weightlifter :)

Also I don't know of any weightlifters who dont do any bench press. There are ways to get around using a bench but it is inconvenient and removes some exercises including some important ones.

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If you're worried about failure on the squat, you can do Front Squat, Hack Squat, or DB Squats as heavy as you like with no fear and no need for a cage.
What if its time to change up your routine and you need 'normal' squats? What if all you want to do is press weight from the sticking point in your squats? What about people who don't want to have to work their grip to squat. It seems to be more trouble than its worth not to own one.

So technically there is no mandatory equiptment including owning plates, bars, etc but since no one wants to go to an extreme such as picking up boulders to get stronger a bench and a cage are high priority peices of equiptment.


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:37 pm 
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ironmaiden708 wrote:
By what you are saying it seems that you really don't need a barbell either. Accually you don't need to buy any weights at all you could just 'do it like a caveman' and move stones around to build strength. Technically you still are a weightlifter :)


Yep. Ever heard of an Atlas Stone, Farmers Walk, Sled Pulls, Bale Tosses, etc, etc, etc?

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Also I don't know of any weightlifters who dont do any bench press. There are ways to get around using a bench but it is inconvenient and removes some exercises including some important ones.


There are plenty of weight trainers that don't do benchpress. Plenty. And this just goes to show, as I said, no one piece of equipment is for everyone.

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What if its time to change up your routine and you need 'normal' squats? What if all you want to do is press weight from the sticking point in your squats? What about people who don't want to have to work their grip to squat. It seems to be more trouble than its worth not to own one.


It's only trouble if you aren't creative. This guy isn't using a cage or a spotter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkK9-mnDAy4

And for a change from Front Squat (which doesn't require a lot of grip) you have Lunges, Split Squat, Step-Ups, and other unilateral work to be done. No to mention the others I detailed earlier. All without a cage. Your routine, growth, progress, and saftey are only limited to your understanding of the work to be done and your desire to get it done.

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So technically there is no mandatory equiptment including owning plates, bars, etc but since no one wants to go to an extreme such as picking up boulders to get stronger a bench and a cage are high priority peices of equiptment.


Popular yes? Required? No. For everyone? No. Just like I said.


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:42 pm 
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I have. Chest front delts and triceps were fried, I could barley move them at all. However my abs and legs still worked great.


So, delts were fried, you were exhausted, and you could still do a full situp, with untethered legs and 240 lbs on your chest. Then you used those fried delts to move 240 lbs forward and control it as you lowered it to the ground.

I'm impressed. You definitely have no need of the DB hooks. Cheers!


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:05 pm 
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I was mistaken to have said that a bench and a cage are for everyone. If a avg. Joe was to come up to you and ask about what peices of equiptment he should get for a home gym setup, what would you recommend?

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It's only trouble if you aren't creative. This guy isn't using a cage or a spotter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkK9-mnDAy4

Heres a guy doing back squats with spotters and on a squat rack.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=otqbG5CbZ7E


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:17 pm 
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ironmaiden708 wrote:
I was mistaken to have said that a bench and a cage are for everyone. If a avg. Joe was to come up to you and ask about what peices of equiptment he should get for a home gym setup, what would you recommend?


Honestly, and we're talking about a set-up at home, I’d recommend a bench unit with at least a high pulley, adjustable bench angles, and leg station (extension and curl). Most of those have a high setting for squats, and while it doesn’t have the safety stopping power of a cage, you can place heavy saw horses on either side for stops. You can get heavy saw horses rated for 500lbs or more for a lot cheaper than a full blown cage. And it takes less space.

If you have the space and the money, then a cage is an awesome piece of equipment with a lot of uses.

I’d also recommend getting the dumbbell hooks for solo work! :-)

But as I said, even though I like it and use it doesn’t mean it is for everyone.


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:26 pm 
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I have thought about getting the hooks but at the moment I have bigger peices of equiptment I have to invest $$ in. Lat attachment to my power cage & texas power bar since my dicks sporting good POS lifting bar decided to break on me.

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heavy saw horses
That would definitelly work as apart of the poor mans set up. :)

W/e works as long as the lifter is safe while doing it.


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:45 pm 
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heavy saw horses - That would definitelly work as a part of the poor mans set up. :)


Yep! Muscles respond to heavy weight, not pretty equipment. A lot of people, especially those “Average Joes” that are starting out, don’t have the money to invest in the big-deal specialty equipment. And sadly enough, a lot of people that could be training won’t because they think it costs hundreds upon hundreds of dollars to do so.

When you weight train, the number 1 rule is to always check your ego at the door.

That not only applies to the amount of weight you use (go heavy, but do NOT sacrifice form), but it also applies to fancy equipment.

A pound is a pound is a pound. You can lift 100lb dumbbells made of gold with a price tag in the thousands, or you can lift 100lb of concrete for under 20 bucks. Either way, your muscles get 100lbs of work….the only difference is your show and your ego. Neither of which promote muscle growth or strength gains.


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 3:39 am 
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Chris_A wrote:
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I have. Chest front delts and triceps were fried, I could barley move them at all. However my abs and legs still worked great.


So, delts were fried, you were exhausted, and you could still do a full situp, with untethered legs and 240 lbs on your chest. Then you used those fried delts to move 240 lbs forward and control it as you lowered it to the ground.

I'm impressed. You definitely have no need of the DB hooks. Cheers!


Not exactly. Now if my legs were held down, I could do a full situp with my 1 rep max on my chest. However as it was my legs were free and I used them for momentum to aid my abs and hips in bringing me to a seated position. During all this I am clutching the weight into my chest using biceps, rear delts and just a bit of traps. All muscle I didn't just fry. Then I stand up using legs and glutes, while lowering the dumbbells using my biceps and forearms. The Forearms got somewhat fatigued stabilizing the bench press, but recover quickly. I could lower the weights to the floor using the posterior chain, basically doing the negative of a deadlift, but instead I put them in a rack. I have to raise them slightly using biceps, rear and lateral delts and traps.

During all that my chest front delts and tries did nothing. The last rep was the last bit of upper body pushing I did. There was no upper body pushing involved in anything else. It was all pulling, elevation and lower body push.

Just use your legs for momentum and you can do it too.


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 7:08 am 
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Lets put it this way. IMO a cage is nice, but certainly not necessary. Nor is a bench. All that's really needed is some form of resistance. Would I do a heavy squat without a cage? Nope, I'd do front squats fo that if I had to, I could get out safely. As to the bench, oh yeah, they're handy, but just finding something, like chair back to back, will allow dips, and when i was growing up eons ago, those along with pullups and clean and press were the preferred exercises for the upper body anyway. Kist my .02
Tim


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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 8:42 pm 
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Ironman, nice post! I'll admit that on that day, I did panic a bit and wanted to dump the weight. But you're right, stay calm and use the muscles that aren't fatigued, and you may be able to get out from under it. Thanks for keeping it real!


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