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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:45 pm 
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Does anyone know of research on a specific warmup (no cardio) prior to strength-training? I've been hired to design a worksite fitness program for a local company. I don't think I can get the employees to walk up and down the aisle for 5-10 min, so I was considering a warm-up consisting of only of light reps with an exercise band and want to have some data to back up that this is safe and effective.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:21 pm 
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Check out Crossfit, the exercises on there vary in intensity. A lot don't require equiptment. Reguarding the sources/data, I imagine that good chunk of these exercises wouldn't hurt these people but I don't have any solid data reguarding their safety.

This site has a chart showing how often injuries due to weightlifting occur compared to other sports like football and soccer. What your looking to do would be closely related to resistance training.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:52 pm 
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Thanks. On this website under "weight-training warm-up" http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/WarmUp.html#anchor487985:
"Specific warm up can be considered more effective for weight training than general warmup." I was hoping for a reference for this statement. Does the guy who wrote this website read the forum? Maybe he could answer me. (BTW, I refer lots of people to this site -- the best for ex descriptions)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:07 pm 
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Those two italicized references above it may cover that info as well.

The site owners are James and Eric and I don't believe they ever rumage on this forum. They are two very buissy people from what I gathered. Email them directly if you want. Contact info should be on the site somewhere.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:11 am 
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For warmups you may want to take a lesson from Crossfit. They certainly have warmups down to a science.

The following should be included in a good warmup:
1. increase the core temperature
2. move all major joints through a full range of motion
3. practice fine motor skills
4. address deficiencies

The overriding goal is to prepare the body for athletic activity.

An example of an appropriate warmup might be several reps of medicine ball clean & jerks.

A more advanced warmup is a circuit of back extentions, sit ups, push ups, pull ups and squats.

This would provide your general warmup. Your specific warmup would be lower weights of the actual exercises you plan to perform.

Stu


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:39 am 
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I think the OP was looking for studies done about specific vs general. Now I know why he asked. I googled "Specific warm ups vs general warm ups for weight training. " and got a ton of hits, but most were opinions. I'll let the OP sift through for study specifics. The concensus seems to be get the body warm first with general for a minimum of 3-5 minutes, then go to specifics. Personally, I've never had a problems when rushed for time to do a specific only, but again, that's an opinion, with no scientific explanation to support it.
Tim


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:18 am 
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simple fitness wrote:
Does anyone know of research on a specific warmup (no cardio) prior to strength-training? I've been hired to design a worksite fitness program for a local company. I don't think I can get the employees to walk up and down the aisle for 5-10 min, so I was considering a warm-up consisting of only of light reps with an exercise band and want to have some data to back up that this is safe and effective.


I can tell you I have done just fine with bodybuilding and have never done 1 solitary second of cardio before. There is no need. There is not even any need for a study. All you need is logical thinking.

First we know the point of the 5 minute cardio thing is to get the blood flowing and warm. We know that warm up sets are to get us used to doing heavier weights. Now the other thing you will notice is the warm up sets also give you the same benefit of getting the blood warm and flowing. Therefore if you do your warm up sets, you have no need of the cardio because you have already gotten the benefits it would give without doing it.

See, solved with logical thought. If you kill 2 birds with 1 stone, why bother throwing a second stone at a dead bird. Your energy would be better spent plucking them and cutting them up, and starting the BBQ, and getting a beer and.... oh eh...yea You get it don't you.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:05 am 
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I think that the OP is needing to justify his plan to his clients. I've searched for research on warm-up questions before, and been frustrated. The studies are inconsistent. They often treat stretching and warm-up as the same thing, or use routines of mixed stretching and cardio as the warm-up. I would also like to see some simple comparisons of populations who do 1)cardio, 2)stretching, 3)light sets of the exercise, 4)nothing. Personally, I'll bet that they lowest rate of injury would be in group 3.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:16 am 
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Sometimes, I think actual studies just aren't necessary and waiting on them can hold you back.

I'm a very big fan of dynamic warm ups and magnificient mobility. Given the credibility of the coaches who made it (and other coaches who speak highly of it), it's just something i've never questioned. It's time better spend on planning your next program or for me, flicking through some anatomy books. It's even recommded by Dr Stuart McGill, who has done extensive research on lower backs (check his site - backfitpro, for a list of publications). Some of the movements are described in his book. On top of that, you can just try the different warm up methods and see for yourself. For example, if you do a 10minute static stretch program, it's pretty obvious that it's not optimal for a warm up. It relaxes you - you feel like you could just go for a lie down or sleep. I'm sure there's research to show that it temporarily weakens muscles, too (but again, this is obvious if you experiment a little with it).

Every time I put someone through a dynamic warm up, they always comment how good they feel (or how difficult it is - if they are way out of shape) - how 'free' or more agile they feel. Dynamic warm ups, done properly, improve your movement instantly. Dynamic warm ups are basically body weight exercises. They would come under 'light sets' if they had to be categorised as the above. Although, really, you should be doing light sets anyway.

Personally, my warm up consists of a couple of static stretches but mostly dynamic movements. When I start my first exercise, I do some light sets and work up to my working weight.

It's like foam rolling - as far as I know, there's practically no research to back up it's use in a training program. As far as I know there's a huge lack of research regarding soft tissue work in general.

Foam rolling (and dynamic warm ups) were a huge part of me going from 'tight as a drum' cave man posture, to a 'military' style posture with great mobility-stability. Foam rolling increases ROM in a matter of 30 seconds if your tight enough! Foam rolling pre warm up makes you feel even better after a dynamic warm up. (i foam roll before every training session)

Foam rolling and dynamic warm ups, to me, are blatantly obviously superior to other methods - simply because i've tried and tested it, and most other warm up methods too. I used to do 2-3minute jog, some shoulder circles and some light sets and can safely say it done nothing for me. I done pull ups and dips as a warm up, after some 'shoulder circles', too and safely say the same... I could argue that these warm ups (pull ups and dips especially) only contributed to injuries.

I know this doesn't actually answer the question or provide any research. I guess my point is - Is the research really necessary?

KPj


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:03 pm 
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Jungledoc wrote:
I think that the OP is needing to justify his plan to his clients. I've searched for research on warm-up questions before, and been frustrated. The studies are inconsistent. They often treat stretching and warm-up as the same thing, or use routines of mixed stretching and cardio as the warm-up. I would also like to see some simple comparisons of populations who do 1)cardio, 2)stretching, 3)light sets of the exercise, 4)nothing. Personally, I'll bet that they lowest rate of injury would be in group 3.


Nope. Let me be more clear.

Activity A results in effect X and Y
Activity B results in effect Y

No further information is needed to know that to achieve X and Y, you need only to engage in activity A. Engaging in activity B in addition to A would be redundant. To engage only in B would not give you X and therefor would not achieve the objective.

It is a simple testable thing that can be reduced to a simple equation.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:20 am 
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simple fitness wrote:
Does anyone know of research on a specific warmup (no cardio) prior to strength-training? I've been hired to design a worksite fitness program for a local company. I don't think I can get the employees to walk up and down the aisle for 5-10 min, so I was considering a warm-up consisting of only of light reps with an exercise band and want to have some data to back up that this is safe and effective.


The most efficient warm up method is the use of light weight in the exercise movement. If your going to bench press, then use warm up with light weight in the bench press prior to performing the movement.

Kenny Croxdale


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:23 am 
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Ironman nailed it.

Quote:
I can tell you I have done just fine with bodybuilding and have never done 1 solitary second of cardio before. There is no need.

... the warm up sets also give you the same benefit of getting the blood warm and flowing. Therefore if you do your warm up sets, you have no need of the cardio because you have already gotten the benefits it would give without doing it.


Kenny Croxdale


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:29 am 
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Quote:
The concensus seems to be get the body warm first with general for a minimum of 3-5 minutes, then go to specifics.


Tim, the "concensus is full of crap. Very few powerlifters, Olympic lifters or even bodybuilders perform some "general" warm up.

No "general" warm up is needed by the a beginner or the average person, as well.

Quote:
I've never had a problems when rushed for time to do a specific only...


Another example of there being NO need for a "general" warm up.

Kenny Croxdale


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:26 am 
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Kenny Croxdale wrote:
Quote:
stuward wrote:
For warmups you may want to take a lesson from Crossfit. They certainly have warmups down to a science.


Stu, a "general" warm up is unnecessary. A specific warm up using with the exercise you are going to perform is much more effective and efficient.

Quote:
The following should be included in a good warmup:
1. increase the core temperature


Drinking a cup of coffee about 30 minutes prior to an activity is a better way of elevating your core temperature.

Quote:
2. move all major joints through a full range of motion
3. practice fine motor skills
4. address deficiencies


Warming up with specific exercise you are going to perform will do this will take care of 2, 3, and 4.

Pavel Tatsouline in "Beyond Bodybuilding," rips apart the "concensus" view (as Tim put it) of performing a "general" warm up.

With a general warm up, you are warming up for your warm up (of a specific exercise). How efficient is that?

Kenny Croxdale


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:36 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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Was just doing some general browsing and came across this, which is a blog post by Mike Roberston mentioning what's discussed here,

http://robertsontrainingsystems.blogspo ... rm-up.html

KPj


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