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 Post subject: Spondylolisthesis L1 S5
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 8:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:31 pm
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3 years ago, I had this back pain, which hurt like hell whenever I bent over or sat down. I was a teenager back then (and still am) so I knew something was wrong. I went to a doctor and he took x-rays.

I was diagnosed with spondylolisthesis l1 s5. Essentially, it is a condition in which one vertebra moves forward in relation to the one below it. And the vertebra was in my lower back. It wasn't too serious, however, and it's damage could be limited. In addition, the condition is sometimes genetic so it most likely was not from an injury.

But, the doctor said I can no longer do squats. Ever.

I haven't done squats in nearly 3 years and I miss them dearly. I've resorted to doing leg presses but they clearly aren't the same. I've been doing ab excercises to prevent an over extension of my back, but I haven't really done any lower back specific excercises. My plan in the next few weeks is to find a gym with a reverse hyperextension machine and do lots of those.

What do you guys suggest I do? Do you think I can deadlift with my back condition? I'd rather play it safe than sorry. I know I'm still young but my condition is not something I can fight through. So I want to be as safe with it as possible.


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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 8:41 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 5:30 pm
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Location: new york
i am not a physical therapist and have no idea what that condition is so i am not recommending this, but you can do reverse hyper extensions for your lower back on a excersize ball--i love them and they work really well for strengthening the lower back.
lay on the ball on your stomach and raise your feet up at the same time, then lower , dont let your feet touch the ground.
the further the ball is on your chest the harder it is- i would start with the ball on your your hips(your hips on the ball)

good luck and at least your are still training--far too many of us get hurt and then quit.


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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 9:11 pm 
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Is the doctor a sports-oriented orthopedist? He might be right in his diagnosis , but if he's a traditional doctor you might want to get a second opinion.

Obviously, squatting with a lot of weight puts a big-time strain on the lower back. But the squatting movement is one of the most beneficial for maintaining full range of motion for the hip and knee joints. You might be able to fit squatting in your routine as an auxillary exercise, using lighter weights. That probably isn't satisfying for you, but it's better than nothing. Even squatting with light weights full range is better than the 1/10 leg presses with 50 plates that I see at my gym.

At any rate, get a second opinion. Many doctors consider the squat dangerous even for people who have healthy spines and knees.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 9:19 pm 
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In Memoriam: TimD
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Location: Va Beach, Va
I agree with both posters. Go to a qualified sports-med pjysicain for a 2nd opinion, and go over to a chiro (don.t pay the fee until you get an opinion) and think it over. Kevin is dead on with the recverse hypers. I blew my back out I don't know how many times, and reverse hypers fixes it


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:23 am 
VoK wrote:
3 years ago, I had this back pain, which hurt like hell whenever I bent over or sat down. I was a teenager back then (and still am) so I knew something was wrong. I went to a doctor and he took x-rays.

I was diagnosed with spondylolisthesis l1 s5. Essentially, it is a condition in which one vertebra moves forward in relation to the one below it. And the vertebra was in my lower back. It wasn't too serious, however, and it's damage could be limited. In addition, the condition is sometimes genetic so it most likely was not from an injury.


Only x-rays? That sounds a bit strange but anyway. Spondylolisthesis is not genetic although recent research i haven't seen might prove me wrong. it can be congenital but rare. it is more apparent as you age and in the youing it is usually due to excessive loading of the spine via sport or other activity. Spondylolisthesis is an end product of failure of specific posterior elements of the vertebrae (neural arch and facets). The cause of this failure is normally anterior/posterior shear loading or cyclic full spine flexion and extension. From your comments I would say you have a Grade 1 maybe 2?? I would say it is likely that it was an injury. The diagnosis of this inkury normally comes after investigating something else so the exact incident is not like other injuries and comes apparent over time.[/quote]

Quote:
But, the doctor said I can no longer do squats. Ever.


Well generally no but it depends on the grade of injury and how you perform squats. Any amount of flexion about the superior vertebrae, in your case L5 will dramatically increase shear forces and compromise the ability for the extensors to compensate. So there is risk. Also loading across the shoulders would be better substituted with holding at lumbar level.

Quote:
I haven't done squats in nearly 3 years and I miss them dearly. I've resorted to doing leg presses but they clearly aren't the same. I've been doing ab excercises to prevent an over extension of my back, but I haven't really done any lower back specific excercises. My plan in the next few weeks is to find a gym with a reverse hyperextension machine and do lots of those.


I would lose the leg presses especially if they are using a vertical sled, these can cause a flexion of the spine due to pelvic rotation and besides that they are really an irrelevant motor pattern if you are seeking back health. If you continue with a more horizontal leg press then use one leg at a time to minimise pelvic rotation/lumbar flexion. Please DO NOT perform hyperextensions especially on a weighted machine they will not assist with your rehab and in fact may cause problems of a disc nature. It is rare for someone with your condition to get a benefit from exercise that travels through the ROM. The prescription for your type of injury should be stability with care to exercise the extensors (longissimus, iliocostalis and multifidus ) whilst in a neutral lumbar position. Research also suggests that you should train the thoracic extensors (longissimus thoracis pars thoracis, iliocostalis lumborum pars thoracis) as they are the most efficient lumbar extensors due to their large moment arm. As with my other posts concentrate on endurance not strength, learn to brace correctly and avoid full flexion/extension ROM exercises. You are right, play it safe unfortunately athletic training principles are not recommended in your case.

[/quote]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:25 am 
Damn Im having issues today. The above post was mine. Cheers.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 6:57 am 
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Rookie
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Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:34 pm
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Location: Houston, TX
Go to a sports med doctor, your back is way to important to be crossing your fingers and hoping for the best.

_________________
Don't forget to swim! You'll thank me later in life...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 9:14 pm 
Sports med doctor, sports med doctor?? This does not need a sports med doctor. The diagnosis is quite easy after scans and that part is done another doctor will do little more than support the diagnosis. Find a good physio or rehab trained e.physiologist and get some exercise prescription, something a sports med doctor don't have a lot of specific knowledge in.


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