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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:26 pm 
what's your advise on how to shed the layer of fat on the abs so that the sixpack can be seen?

I've been doing circuit training for almost 6 months now plus 40min jogging twice a week and even though I control my diet, I can't get rid of the fat later in that place.

Thanks for the tips.

L.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:34 pm 
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Well, as far as training goes, on the surface, without diving too deeply into it, it looks like you're doing the right thing. Just make sure you have 1 or 2 core (trunk) exercises in the ciruit. No need to treat them any different than the rest though.
You say you have you're diet controlled. Give us an idea of what that means to you, it varies from person to person. I knew a kid that was trying to lose fat, said he was going on a diet. He came back to the table with a plate loaded with rice and beans, said it was good because it was "very low fat". EEnnnhhh wrong. It might be low fat, but very calorie dense. So just give us an example of how you eat.
In the meantime, look over this article
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nut ... ting_2.htm
Tim


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:00 pm 
Thanks for the hint Tim, here's roughly what I eat:

morning: friut / cornflakes on milk

lunch: mostly vegetable salad, plus tuna/eggs, no olive oil added; once a week something with turkey/potatoes/vegetables

supper: two sandwitches with yellow cheese/turkey ham, tomatoes, yoghurt/milk

other than that minimal alcohol (max a beer a month), no sweets, little fruit juice

I basically drink water/eat fruit in between the meals if I'm feeling hungry.

L.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:13 pm 
having just read the article, I know what you'd say - cut on the bread/corn flakes thing.

other than that evarything seems to be in sync with the article...

L.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:48 pm 
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Yep, you guessed right. Limit the starchy stuff, and keep it to true whole grains. Lots of garbage in the stores sold as "whole grain" which really aren't. In a nuitshell, good fats, (avacados, olive oil, etc_), lean meats, fruits and veg, limited starch and stick with true whole grains.
Tim


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:43 am 
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The idea of "spot reducing" fat on certain body parts is a myth and a marketing gimmick. Fat is not like a muscle and cannot be isolated.

The same goes for trying to get better "lower abs". From what I know, there is no such thing as "lower abs." Your abdominals only consist of your rectus abdominis and obliques. In other words, you can't isolate your "lower abs".


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:16 am 
Yes, I know that you can't burn fat in just one spot, it's all-or-nothing thing. However I also read somewhere that (in proces of reducing overall body fat) abs is the last place where it stays.

I guess Tim hit the right spot.

L.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:22 am 
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Changing your genes might help. Isn't only like 30% of the population genetically (I use this term loosely) able to have a six pack?

And while we are on the abs thing, I'm a fat guy who has found it impossible to show even the slightest hint of an ab muscle. And yes, I am jealous of you people with washboard stomachs. I have completely abandoned ab work. The reason is, I have found, the more ab work I do, the bigger my waste gets. Basically the muscle pushes out my fat even more. Gasp, I don't want to look fatter!

Having said all that, I believe I am getting enough "core" work with squats, dead lifts, hang cleans, military press, etc. without having to do ab work.

I think basically what I am saying is that if you can't see your abs, work more on losing fat than building up you abs. Finally, I have read somewhere that aspirin might help you lose the mid section fat. There are very few blood vessels in the ab fat area. Aspirin thins the blood and thus allows more blood flow to the ab area. Any comments?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:28 pm 
Well... thanks for the hints.

I have started working our six months ago for the first time in my life and the progress is pretty self evident. I guess that the nutrition tip from Tim was really good and should help me accomplish my goal, which is not too far away.

I guess I'm in the lucky 30% then if that's true. Technically, I already have the upper 1/3 of the six pack and need to get rid of the remaining fat layer. That's what my original question was about.

L.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:52 pm 
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hoosegow wrote:
Changing your genes might help. Isn't only like 30% of the population genetically (I use this term loosely) able to have a six pack?

And while we are on the abs thing, I'm a fat guy who has found it impossible to show even the slightest hint of an ab muscle. And yes, I am jealous of you people with washboard stomachs. I have completely abandoned ab work. The reason is, I have found, the more ab work I do, the bigger my waste gets. Basically the muscle pushes out my fat even more. Gasp, I don't want to look fatter!

Having said all that, I believe I am getting enough "core" work with squats, dead lifts, hang cleans, military press, etc. without having to do ab work.

I think basically what I am saying is that if you can't see your abs, work more on losing fat than building up you abs. Finally, I have read somewhere that aspirin might help you lose the mid section fat. There are very few blood vessels in the ab fat area. Aspirin thins the blood and thus allows more blood flow to the ab area. Any comments?


You might want to try som internal abdominal work. http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/Transve ... acuum.html

It's the abdominal muscle that essentially holds your guts in. I've heard somewhere that working on this muscle may "suck in" your stomach.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:02 am 
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I'm not sure if this is your problem, but be sure to get a good amount of sleep. A lot of people get maybe 5-6 hours of sleep regularly, and it just isn't enough. There are so many benefits directly and indirectly related to sleep, including a direct effect on your metabolism (lack of sleep makes it harder to process foods, meaning what you do eat counts for more - perhaps keeping you at a body fat % high enough so those abs don't show). A lot of people who can't seem to take it to the next level just need to relax... literally.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:32 am 
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Dave X, good point. I've been hearing a lot of that lately over on another board. I think the name of the recent book out on the subject is"Lights Out".
Tim


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:59 pm 
I know the amount of sleep one needs differs from person to person. In my case it's around eight hours and that is what I'm regularily getting...

But I guess all this shows there's much more to excercise than just going to the gym.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:56 am 
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Dude,

Shedding the last layer of bodyfat on the abs is extremely hard to say the least, unless your a genetic freak. It takes pretty extreme dieting but it can deffinately be done. Remeber though, theres no easy way to do it, u have to be willing to suffer! The best tips I can give you are these:

1. Increase your cardio (4-5 times a week) and perform cardio in the morning before your first meal.

2. Eat a very low sugar, low fat, low carb and high protein diet. Consume most of your carbs before 12.00 miday & spread your food between 5-6 meals per day.

3. Consume whole foods rather than health shakes. Also drink 3-4 litres of water a day.

The best way to shed bodyfat is to increase the speed of your metabolism. The 2 main things that affect metabolism are diet and exercises. Increase them both and reap the rewards.

Good luck.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:18 pm 
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Genetics unsubstantiated theories now have become the excuses for everything, the reason for giving up before even trying

It's not true that only a small amount of people can have a six-pack, the truth is that everyone can have a sick-pack even children: ever seen young gymnasts?

It's very easy, muscles when microdamaged rebuild themselves stronger and this is true for every gender, every age and every genetical body type, it's the basis of surviving, if muscle wouldn't hypertrophy and become bigger as they're microdamaged by external stress, tension and stimulus infants would never be able eventually to walk on their feet. That's why researchers are now saying that testosterone has very limited effects on muscle hypertrophy unlike what many people believe

So not 30% but everyone is able to grow bigger abdominal muscles

As for making those muscles visible is only a matter of body fat
The reason why it is so hard to lose fat in the midsection is that most of it is visceral fat and also the most dangerous.
It's more dangerous and unhealthy to be skinny or bulky with abdominal fat than being obese, because it's the visceral fat that plays havoc with metabolism not the subcutaneous

So if you lose the visceral fat and have strong abdominal muscles you will have a sick-pack, and not only that means that it's not true that only 30% of people can have a sick-pack but that every person in this world should aim to have a six-pack because it is indeed a sign of health

As for genetics: what it supposedly does is determining the places where the fat is stored, what it means is that a person who is genetically advantage will need a not so low bodyfat in order to lose midsection fat while other people may need to go as low as 8%
But it's possible for everyone to have such low bodyfat level, I'm not denying it is hard but feasible for everyone

What I can assure you is that if you train your abdominal muscles and you have no visceral fat you will have a visible sick-pack even if not a perfect one, which means that as long as there's no sick-pack, there's metabolically dangerous fat in your body and you're can't be healthy

I'm not saying that is simple, just very mechanical and universal
Ivanov advices are very good: you want to limit insulin spikes by eating more often and consuming carbs with protein

There's another thing that raises metabolism and burn visceral fat: muscles! As your muscles will get bigger they will burn fat especially the visceral midsection fat: remember that fat is dead matter while muscles are alive and burning

Besides it's very true that if training is not showing your abs then you must focus on losing abdominal fat. Abs are large muscles who recover quickly than others, and you need no more than than 2 series of crunches three times a week to train them. If you do the crunches and the muscles don't show up the problem is fat

Visceral fat is the reason working the abs may reasult in a bigger waist: the abdominal muscles are getting bigger and the fat is pushing them forward and then you have a belly pouch

The abdominal are probably already big and strong, it's the fat the problem

Good Luck!
Danny


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