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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:53 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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Hi

First of all, my goal is size and strength. I follow a typical bodybuilding split routine. I train chest/tris, back/bi's, shoulders/trap and legs/abs. 4 days per week, generally 2 body parts each day. I like to mix it up but this is it generally. I have been training for almost 2 years and put on 28 pounds in weight, hardly any (although a little) body fat - still see abs:-) - Strength has also increased a lot for all muscles.


When I train my chest I get a dull ache in my left shoulder. It doesn't feel like one of the heads i.e posterior, anterior, lateral. However, after each set (which is when it's worse), i can make it feel a good bit better by rubbing my front (anterior) delt for a while.....

It happens mostly with dumbell and barbell bench press. It's always my left, my right side always feels fine. It's been happening for a month or 2 now.

Anyone ever had this?? or any ideas what it could be?

I have been asking a lot about shoulders on this forum recently and this is really the reason why..... paranoid.... However, I generally do equal push/pull movements across both horizontal and vertical plains... Also, my strength seems pretty balanced e.g comparing bench press to bent over row. Although, i'm not too sure about comparing wide grip pull ups to shoulder press.... I can pull up my body weight plus 22pounds (3x6-8reps) so with body weight that would total 176pounds. My shoulder press in equivelant sets/reps is around 120pounds...

I feel that I am very strict on form, although, I do train myself so it's possible that i'm not i suppose.

Any advice or ideas would be greatly appreciated.... I do understand that no one can diagnose things over the internet (its a niggle just now, but feels like it could become more).

Thanks

KPj


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:42 am 
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There was a guy that works out at my gym who was rubbing his front delt a lot. One day I saw him doing dumbbell bench press. He dropped the weights, screamed and just collapsed to the floor. His arm was kind of hanging funny. It looked really painful. He was groaning and just laying on the floor. It turned out he dislocated his shoulder. There was someone there with some medical knowledge who popped his shoulder back in, but he can't lift heavy for a long time. I would see a doctor about that problem. It might be nothing, but it could be pretty serious.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:07 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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Thanks for the reply. lol, now you've got me thinking.

I agree that I should see someone, my only problem is....who?

I have a lot of respect for GP's but my doc is completely hopeless with sports injury. I went to him with a chest injury, quite mild but it was a concern. To check what caused the pain(although I already told him), he asked me to hold my arm by my side, and push out whilst he held my arm i.e a lateral raise. For a chest injury. Enough said, lol.

There must be something you can do e.g go and get scanned or something to make sure everythings ok? Anyone know? If I go to the doctor I will get anti infammatorys and told to come back when they are finished and he MIGHT refer me to a specialist.

Lol, if I go to the sports injury clinic in my gym, i will get a massage and a bill (which would be ok if it helped)!

It's really my lack of help that got me on this forum, learning as much as I could myself. But the shoulder is so complex, it's a really difficult one to call.

Surely, to dislocate your shoulder when benching, your form needs to be all wrong? Or maybe have a history of shoulder problems - dislocated it before maybe? I duno..... Not arguing, just brainstorming..

I dont have a history of any problems like this fyi....

Thanks again.

KPJ


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:25 am 
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In Memoriam: TimD
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Okay, I get your dilema. Yes, a lot of doctors will try to pump you full of meds, but a good Gen Practitioner should be able to point you to a specialist. Also, not sure where you're from, but here in the US, we have physicians that specialize in sportsmed, and would be able to diagnose you rather quickly, then send you out to a qualified therapist. Get a referal to a sportsmed physician and go from there.
Tim


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:36 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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Thanks, again.

So, when I go and see the doctor, and he gives me anti infammatorys and tells me to come back in 3-4weeks when they're finished, is it reasonable for me to say "that won't work, I need referred to a specialists and infact, I've still got almost 2 packets of anti inflammatorys from the last injury that you weren't any help with and infact, I had to diagnose myself and recover from it using my own common sense and the internet" - I apologise for the tone, but my doctor hates weight training. When I told him that I trained, he said "all i can say is, what did you expect??" - I got really, really annoyed, lol.

Seriously though, apologies for the tone, just getting it all off my chest.

I am from the UK and you can get reffered to a specialist here, it just seems to be really difficult. I am going to ask if there is a doctor who either knows about training, or doesn't disagree with training, then I will see what happens.

I have read threads created by people who have had shoulder injuries - would like to hear their views... if they're around?

Thank you

KPj


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:30 am 
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KPj, I thought you might be from the UK. Socialized medicine. It's getting that way here too these days. I used to ship out of Glasgow, and I do know that in most major cities, they have sports clubs, and the bigger clubs (especially with their own football teams) have club trainers, that are experienced in sports med. You might want to see if you can go talk to ne of those guys/gals. They could definately point you in the right direction.
Tim


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:37 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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Hi Tim

It's funny you say that as I stay about 20 miles from Glasgow :-)

I will take your advice. For some reason, I never even thought of contacting someone through an actual sports team, lol. Will have a go anyway. Hopefully I will get told that it's all in my head!

Thanks again

KPj


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:16 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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Where are your elbows in relation to your body when you bench press? Are they strait out to the sides, or nearly so? If so, you may find it more comfortable to lower the weight(s) to a point a little lower on your chest, which will keep your elbows closer to your body.

Also, I agree you should get it checked out.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:20 am 
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Do you only get this pain while performing flat bench movements, or do you also get it while doing inclines, declines or dips?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:12 am 
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Hi Matt, thanks for responding.

When I bench press my elbows are flaired AKA the bodybuilder style. During my research I discovered that there was actually another way AKA the powerlifter style with elbows closer to body, bringing bar down a little lower. When benching now I am just in 2 minds so I struggle to focus, was thinking of taking it out of my routine for 2 months, then introducing it again as if it was a new exercise, starting with light weight and performing it the powerlifter way.

Is this what you were meaning?

Also, I feel it when performing incline aswell. As of yesterday I changed my doctor and now have one who seems to have more of an open mind. Hopefully he will recommend someone.

Thanks

KPj


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:40 am 
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Yes that is what I was refering to. Good luck with the new doctor.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:24 am 
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PS.) I've noticed that many bodybuilders bench press in the powerlifting style, while no powerlifters bench press in the bodybuilding style.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:39 am 
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Matt, you're right. Most PL types don't do bodybuilding style, however, a few coaches do recommend it in a prep or adaption phase. The idea is many different exercises designed to get all aspects to lay a base for the heavier, more narrow range of exerises to come in later phases.
Tim


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:40 am 
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My father has had bad rotator cuff/shoulder joint problems on both sides. At times he used to get partial dislocations, where an arm would seem to pop out and back into socket on it's own just doing everyday tasks. Strangely weight training seemed to help the problem by strengthening the surrounding muscles.


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 Post subject: Shoulder Pain
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:45 pm 
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First, I'd see a doctor and see if an anitinflamitory calms your shoulder down, along with reduced pushing at the gym. It is most likely a sprain, but if you don't back off, a tear could occur. Sufficient warm-ups should be added before you lift, especially pendulum rotations. After your workout, apply an ice pack to the aching shoulder. Sometimes, if you switch from flat benching to inclined or declined, this will alleviate the stress on a sprained shoulder. Hope this helps. I am trying to make a comeback after a really bad RC tear. I did my first bench press this week using only the bar. This kind of injury takes you way back, especially when you GH production has all but ceased with late age.

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