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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:36 pm 
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When I lift weights especially when I try to lift a lot of weight I will sometimes get depressed a day or so later. The depression doesn't seem correlated with anything else. I first noticed this several years ago when I was trying to do pull-ups. The more I did, hey I was making progress I was happy, a day and a half later or so later I'd get really sad or depressed. The depression would last for a day or less.

Now if I try to lift really aggressively and try to lift the maximum I can do, if I don't get depressed I'll be fatigued for days sometimes. I almost feel like I am traumatized for 2 or 3 days. Sometimes I'll also feel a little clumsy for the day. I don't think I'm lifting that much. Cardio seems if anything seems to make me feel better (although I really don't enjoy running much).

I've done a few web searches and I have never read anyone else having my experience. I asked a MD once during a physical he said he didn't know. I asked a psychologist once and she said well stress can cause depression and so it could be the weight lifting causing stress.

Note: I always try to do 4 sets of 12 reps (but sometimes it's as low as 8 reps in the later sets). I am male and 49 years old.

I'd really appreciate any insight people can offer.
Matthew


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:21 am 
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Hmmm first time I've heard of that, normally exercise has a positive impact on mental well being.

What's your diet like, do you eat a lot of fats? I was recently reading about the effects of Omega 3 on depression. People with diets high in Omega 3 tend to have a lower tendency for depression.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:38 am 
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As someone that suffers from depression, I can relate to that. Exercise does have positive effects but the type and intensity of the exercise matters. I think it's important to do something every day. I know I don't always feel like it and that's something I need to work at. I make it a habit of going to the gym before I go to work every week day. I don't go heavy every day but I always do something. I think there is a lot to be said about going for a walk every day as that's something everybody can do and it's relaxing. Above all, do something you find fun.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:45 pm 
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sjmj3us wrote:
When I lift weights especially when I try to lift a lot of weight I will sometimes get depressed a day or so later. The depression doesn't seem correlated with anything else. I first noticed this several years ago when I was trying to do pull-ups. The more I did, hey I was making progress I was happy, a day and a half later or so later I'd get really sad or depressed. The depression would last for a day or less.

Now if I try to lift really aggressively and try to lift the maximum I can do, if I don't get depressed I'll be fatigued for days sometimes. I almost feel like I am traumatized for 2 or 3 days. Sometimes I'll also feel a little clumsy for the day. I don't think I'm lifting that much. Cardio seems if anything seems to make me feel better (although I really don't enjoy running much).

I've done a few web searches and I have never read anyone else having my experience. I asked a MD once during a physical he said he didn't know. I asked a psychologist once and she said well stress can cause depression and so it could be the weight lifting causing stress.

Note: I always try to do 4 sets of 12 reps (but sometimes it's as low as 8 reps in the later sets). I am male and 49 years old.

I'd really appreciate any insight people can offer.
Matthew



It sounds like it is not a Chronic over training issue because you say it happens anytime you do it.

This is something that could happen in females, but not males.

I have seen this in females where a hard workout can cause that. The body (male or female) will release hormones, this helps build muscle and that sort of thing. A hard workout can give you quite a rush of it. In females this can cause depression and irritability because it is mostly estrogen and/or progesterone.

That's not likely for you (well, if it was you'd start growing boobs too). Maybe you have low testosterone levels? Have you had them checked?

Or maybe high cortisol, that might depress dopamine levels.

That's all I can think of.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:18 am 
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I'm most interested in your diet. Are you following a very restrictive diet? Low fat, maybe?

As a side note, a doctor who says "I don't know" instead of making up something lame is worth keeping. The psychologist made up something lame, and is not.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:34 pm 
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I would wonder how you feel if you lift every day.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:24 pm 
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Thanks for the responses.

Re: Ironman
Fortunately no cleavage, so I'm okay there :-). However testosterone and cortisol are interesting, I've never had either checked. I'll look into that.

Re: Nevage
Interesting serendipity there since I just got my cholesterol check at a health fair last week and it seems much higher than a few years ago. Definitely something to consider.

Re: stuward
Good point and I walk most days.

Re: frogbyte
Very run down, I have lifted as many as three times a week and I seemed to get weaker over time. Perhaps if I significantly dropped the weight. This is actually a separate question I am pondering. I have a friend, similar age, with a similar problem. I'd be interested in a plan to, at 49, do that.

Re: Jungledoc
Agree, although one other thing is that I'll get really depressed a couple of days before I get sick with the flu (it was really worrying the first couple of times this happened) which sort of supports the stress connection.

As for diet. I don't really have any sort of plan. I eat pretty much whatever I want. Meat four or five times a week. I tend to drink either milk (I drink a lot of milk), water or herbal tea. I eat a lot of fruit, oranges, apples bananas and seasonal stuff during summer (figs, nectarines) especially for lunch, along with a cheese sandwich. Not particularly interesting diet, I probably eat too many cookies and chocolate. I don't typically eat breakfast. I guess I don't have a good answer. I'm open to recommendations.


Couple of more things. I've tended to circuit train without rest between lifts. I'm trying to add more rest. Also I don't tend to eat before lifting. I've been told I need to eat something with protein right after and I'm trying to do that.

Thanks.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:56 pm 
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My suggestion on diet (same as my suggestion to anyone) is less carbs, especially refined carbs, more protein, and more fat, especially animal fats (and less grain-derived oils, like corn oil or canola). Adding fish and/or fish oil is probably wise, although it doesn't do much good as long as you are still taking in a lot of grain-derived oil.

Do you ever get weak for no reason, particularly in hot weather? Do your eyelids droop at times?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:59 am 
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Jungledoc wrote:
My suggestion on diet (same as my suggestion to anyone) is less carbs, especially refined carbs, more protein, and more fat, especially animal fats (and less grain-derived oils, like corn oil or canola). Adding fish and/or fish oil is probably wise, although it doesn't do much good as long as you are still taking in a lot of grain-derived oil.

Wow, this sounds like an Atkins diet. Could you provide a link to a more detailed description? Also the dietary guide lines on this site , for example. suggest consuming canola oil (http://exrx.net/Nutrition/DietaryGuidelines.html). In cooking we only use olive oil, is that okay? I assume fruit and milk are okay? I drink 2% milk which seems consistent with the above dietary guidelines because they suggest lower fat but you seem to want higher fat are you suggesting 3% is okay? Would half and half be okay? Other than get rid of the refined sugar and refined carbs everything is new to me. I haven't really been trying to lose weight (6'1" and 182 lbs). Won't eating more fat cause me to gain weight?

Quote:
Do you ever get weak for no reason, particularly in hot weather? Do your eyelids droop at times?

Yes, not sure (but it certainly isn't exclusively hot weather) and never noticed. Could you clarify what your looking for?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:50 am 
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Don't confuse the dietary suggestions from the main site with the opinions of the posters in this forum.

I share Jungledoc's view. he can correct me if he disagrees with anything I say. Canola, like all other seed oil is a processed industrial product. This has it's own issues. The main problem is high Omega 6 (lineolic Acid). Canola has some Omega 3 and monounsaturates as well which is why is has a good reputation, but the Omega 6 makes it inflammatory. Olive oil has less Omega 6 so it's OK is normal quantities. Your goal should be to balance the Omega 3 and 6 with roughly equal amounts of each but your total Omega 6 shouldn't be more than about 3-4 grams/day. To get this amount requires virtual exclusion of all processed foods, including vegetable oil.

If it sounds like Atkins it's because Atkins was a pioneer in low carb that had a lot of good ideas. Most of what I recommend is closer to Paleo or Primal eating.

Much of the benefit from dairy (milk, butter, yogurt, cheese, etc) comes from the healthy fats they contain. Eating or drinking reduced fat dairy eliminates much of the goodness.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:02 am 
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I have serious issues with the fat recommendations on this site. They are based on conventional wisdom and official government recommendations. They are not supported by the latest research.

Quote:
Make lower fat and healthier fat choices


The following guidelines are wrong in my opinion:

Quote:
Lower fat food are less calorie dense


Fat is more satisfying than the same calories in Carbs. Low fat foods usually have more processed carbs.

Quote:
Dietary fat is more likely to convert to body fat than carbohydrates or protein


This ignores the hormonal effect of insulin

Quote:
Less tendency to over eat


It's true that fat and carbs together are a calorie bomb that encourages over eating but fat and protein together in the absence of significant carbs is satisfying and does not promote over eating.

Quote:
Too much saturated fat may increase blood cholesterol or LDL


Saturated fats raise good HDLs and large LDLs. Both are protective (or at least correlated with good health). There is no proven link between high LDLs or high total cholesterol with heart disease. Carbs are known to raise triglycerides and small LDLs which are known to cause heart disease.

Quote:
Omega-3 fatty acids


I agree Omega 3 is protective.

Effect of Omega 6 on inflammation is missing.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:40 pm 
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sjmj3us wrote:
Jungledoc wrote:
My suggestion on diet (same as my suggestion to anyone) is less carbs, especially refined carbs, more protein, and more fat, especially animal fats (and less grain-derived oils, like corn oil or canola). Adding fish and/or fish oil is probably wise, although it doesn't do much good as long as you are still taking in a lot of grain-derived oil.

Wow, this sounds like an Atkins diet. Could you provide a link to a more detailed description? Also the dietary guide lines on this site , for example. suggest consuming canola oil (http://exrx.net/Nutrition/DietaryGuidelines.html). In cooking we only use olive oil, is that okay? I assume fruit and milk are okay? I drink 2% milk which seems consistent with the above dietary guidelines because they suggest lower fat but you seem to want higher fat are you suggesting 3% is okay? Would half and half be okay? Other than get rid of the refined sugar and refined carbs everything is new to me. I haven't really been trying to lose weight (6'1" and 182 lbs). Won't eating more fat cause me to gain weight?

Quote:
Do you ever get weak for no reason, particularly in hot weather? Do your eyelids droop at times?

Yes, not sure (but it certainly isn't exclusively hot weather) and never noticed. Could you clarify what your looking for?


The dietary guidelines haven't been updated on there in ages. For example, I know for a fact James no longer think canola is at all healthy. I haven't discussed diet with him in detail, but he was a bodybuilder for a while, and pretty successful too. So he probably ate low carb to cut I would think.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:12 pm 
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I've basically been following http://www.marksdailyapple.com/definiti ... ting-plan/ for the last 16 months and it's taken my health to another level. I did the FDA pyramid for about 2 years prior which didn't work well.

Oh yea, someone asked about blogs in some other thread - Daily Apple.


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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 8:15 pm 
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You sound overtrained strength training wise. There are two different types of overtraining- one associated with strength and the other endurance. I'd try not lifting for a little bit (like a week) and see what happens. You won't loose strength in that time, from what I've read that takes at least a month. Just low level aerobic acitivity like walking for at least a week and see what happens.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:45 am 
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Fatigue associated with exercise usually involves some amount of both borderline and axial fatigue. The amount that anniversary is complex is generally difficult to actuate as the addition of anniversary to fatigue may alter amid activities and alike aural the aforementioned activity. For example, back accomplishing a assorted sets of an exercise application weights, the fatigue in the antecedent sets taken to abortion may be mostly peripheral, while the fatigue accomplished in after sets may added of a axial component.


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