My brain turns off when someone mentions insulin. Calorie math works for me.
Well, that's unfortunate, and is obviously the crux of many of the arguments that various of us have had with you. Insulin is the key! Insulin is what controls the storage of fat. If you control insulin, you control fat storage. "Calorie math" works only if insulin levels move the right way at the same time you change the calorie counts. Calorie counting works for many people because the "calories" that they cut first are the simple sugars, leaving veggies (as you advocate). They lose weight because they are spiking insulin less. The fact that those same people are afraid of fats is more-or-less irrelevant, as long as the insulin spikes are low. They feel that it's the "calorie deficit" that is responsible for the loss.
And there will always be a problem in discussing this if the people in the discussion have different understandings of what a "calorie" is. It will be the old apples and oranges problem. Nutrients behave differently in our body depending on the presence or absence of insulin, and probably many other factors that we don't even know about yet.