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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:44 am 
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I found that changing my routine, started really blasting my abs more. I added in lying flexed leg cable pulls (not with any intention of abs, but to have a pull style leg compound...and deads are not a pull...not for your legs, they ain't...they're a straightening motion.) And I think despite all the stuff about how they are not intended to hit your abs, I think you get a lot of parasitc ab help as well. Of course, farmer's walk and SLDL are probably helping my core as well. But I really think the bent leg pulls are blasting the overall stabilization.

I confess to not knowing what the TVA is or even understanding the argument. Just figured I'd chip in...


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:30 pm 
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ApolytonGP wrote:
I confess to not knowing what the TVA is or even understanding the argument. Just figured I'd chip in...
Is this confession shocking to anyone?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:05 pm 
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Jungledoc wrote:
ApolytonGP wrote:
I confess to not knowing what the TVA is or even understanding the argument. Just figured I'd chip in...
Is this confession shocking to anyone?



Only in its refreshing honesty, not in the confession itself.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:10 pm 
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To answer the question, it is the transverse abdominus. It is the muscles that are under the rectus abdominus and obliques. It wraps around the internal organs. You use these muscles when you suck in your gut. They come in quite handy for pushing things out of the body regardless what it is or which way it goes out.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:29 pm 
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DEXA! :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:22 am 
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ApolytonGP wrote:
and deads are not a pull...not for your legs, they ain't...they're a straightening motion.


.....That old chestnut.... :sleepy1:


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 Post subject: Vacuums, etc.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:25 am 
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I meant to bring up the question about vacuums, and also hang-gut (at least I thought that was the term, but searching online I found nothing). So, the consensus is vacuums are moderately helpful -- any guidelines on how long, how often?

The other thing I'm taking away is the totality of posture -- all these elements have to be in some degree of alignment to make a difference. i.e., I noticed sitting meditation style (crossed legs, "Indian style," on the floor with back straight) my quads seem to be pulling me down, my upper back rounds, and my core doesn't have the strength to prop up my torso against the downward-pulling force.

Anyways...still working, working.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:14 am 
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Are you referring to http://www.yogabasics.com/seated-yoga-p ... table.html perhaps?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:20 am 
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KPj wrote:
ApolytonGP wrote:
and deads are not a pull...not for your legs, they ain't...they're a straightening motion.


.....That old chestnut.... :sleepy1:


ApolytonGP is probably doing them wrong. The knees are only along for the ride. It's a glute/lower back exercise and you're pulling the bar to your body with the glutes and lower back. I don't see why this is so hard to grasp (or grip)?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:20 pm 
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stuward wrote:
KPj wrote:
ApolytonGP wrote:
and deads are not a pull...not for your legs, they ain't...they're a straightening motion.


.....That old chestnut.... :sleepy1:


ApolytonGP is probably doing them wrong. The knees are only along for the ride. It's a glute/lower back exercise and you're pulling the bar to your body with the glutes and lower back. I don't see why this is so hard to grasp (or grip)?


Worrying about "push" vs. "pull" for the legs is silly, IMO. "Hip dominant" and "Quad dominant" work better for me in determining where an exercise fits. Some are fairly equal (trap bar deadlifts seem to fit in the middle for a lot of people), some are really quad dominant (leg press, front squat), some are hip dominant (deadlift, back squat). They all fit on a continuum, though, before anyone starts posting about how quads help back squats and how weak hips mean weak front squats, okay? I pull the bar down on bench presses but it's still a push. ;)

But push vs. pull? Dude, you pull the bar off the floor. You'll feel it in the same muscles you'd feel a heavy row or rope tow or pullups...that's why people put a deadlift in pulls.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:53 pm 
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You're just talking about 2 different things. In a deadlift, your arms pull, your legs push.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:19 pm 
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pdellorto wrote:
stuward wrote:
KPj wrote:
ApolytonGP wrote:
and deads are not a pull...not for your legs, they ain't...they're a straightening motion.


.....That old chestnut.... :sleepy1:


ApolytonGP is probably doing them wrong. The knees are only along for the ride. It's a glute/lower back exercise and you're pulling the bar to your body with the glutes and lower back. I don't see why this is so hard to grasp (or grip)?


Worrying about "push" vs. "pull" for the legs is silly, IMO. "Hip dominant" and "Quad dominant" work better for me in determining where an exercise fits. Some are fairly equal (trap bar deadlifts seem to fit in the middle for a lot of people), some are really quad dominant (leg press, front squat), some are hip dominant (deadlift, back squat). They all fit on a continuum, though, before anyone starts posting about how quads help back squats and how weak hips mean weak front squats, okay? I pull the bar down on bench presses but it's still a push. ;)

But push vs. pull? Dude, you pull the bar off the floor. You'll feel it in the same muscles you'd feel a heavy row or rope tow or pullups...that's why people put a deadlift in pulls.


Yep, that's the way to think about it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:56 pm 
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It's mostly a leg exercise. For the legs, the motion at both knee and hip joints is extension, not flexion.

For the arms, there is the equivalent of a heavily loaded isometric in the pull/flexion direction. (no dynamic movement, you don't actually row the thing and flex your elbows, or pull your upper arms up at the shoulder).


Last edited by ApolytonGP on Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:59 pm 
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ApolytonGP wrote:
It's mostly a leg exercise. For the legs, the motion at both knee and hip joints is extension, not flexion.


Why can't a pull involve joint extension? What about cleans, or swings?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:03 pm 
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For both a squat and a deadlift, you PUSH the floor away with your feet. That is the physical thing that makes the weight move. In one the weight is strapped on your back in the other it's hanging from your primate arms.


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