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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:01 pm 
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I was reading the free sample issue of Alan Aragon's newsletter (which I'd love to subscribe to) which reviews several exercise nutrition studies relating to peri exercise nutrition. He makes the point that one needs amino acids during and after workout to promote protein syntheses, but that one only needs a modest amount of carbs to prevent catabolysis. Larger amounts of carbs are needed to restore glycogen stores quickly only if you are planning on more exercise within the next day or so. Otherwise ordinary eating will restore glycogen adequately.

I do a protein shake pre-workout only if I haven't eaten for a few hours. I do a scoop of whey and a couple of teaspoons of table sugar (since that's all I have). I usually have supper within an hour of the workout. Otherwise, I try to grab some sort of snack, preferably high-prot, but that's not always around. Sometimes snag some of the partly-prepared supper!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:16 pm 
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robertscott wrote:
pdellorto wrote:
Peri-workout: 25g of protein mixed with 50g of dextrose and maltodextrin, plus some L-leucine and/or BCAAs (about 5g) plus 1/2 tsp baking soda, 1/2 tsp salt, 1/4 tsp potassium - the last is my electrolyte mix.


Weird! What's that all about? Do you notice a drop in performance without it? Is it hard to stomach? I don't think I'd ever drink a shake during a workout because I couldn't stomach it, but BCAAs and things are something I've never really considered...


When I forget the salt/potassium/baking soda mix, yeah, I can tell the difference in my post-workout recovery. I feel more tired.

It's not hard to stomach this at all. It's actually very thin and water, with the ON whey protein (double chocolate) and 65/35 maltodextrin/dextrose mix. It's not a "shake" really. It's not thick at all, it's like drinking flavored water, but without that cloying fakeness and over-sweetness of gatorade or powerade.

I find the days I don't drink this during my workout, I don't do as well in the workout and I don't recover as well. Same with post-workout. However, my workouts are always very strenuous. I tend to leave the gym feeling like I left every rep and every yard and every second I had in me on the gym floor, and I need to start eating to get back to form.

I wouldn't do this with a milk-based thick smoothie, of course, but the days I forget my shake and drink water . . . ugh, I can't hack my workouts. And keep in mind I'm carb-cycling, so these are the only simple carbs I'm getting and otherwise I'm going low-carb. So this is also meant to cause a big spike in my blood sugar levels right as all that protein is being digested post-workout.

Then I go eat pasta or oatmeal or rice, and fruit, and PBJ sandwiches, and so on. But right now I'm trying to muscle back up, I'll be cutting again soon enough for my next tournament.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:57 am 
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yeah Peter I read your log, your workouts are very different to mine. I like to think I bust my gut in the gym too, but some of the things your coach has you doing just look sadistic.

I'm going to look into BCAAs during my workout, if they're easy to drink then I'm up for it. Only ones I've ever tried tasted like a horses arse though...


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:31 am 
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I won't lie, BCAAs are bitter as can be. 10g of that in water is going to taste nasty. You might want to experiment with a non-sugar sweetener, like splenda or (my choice) stevia to sweeten it up. But even then, yeah, it's not tasty.

I figured "choke down a liter of nasty bitters" was worth it for what it got me during my fat loss stage. Which was enough energy to survive the workout but not so much I'd undo the fat loss effect.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:41 am 
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I tried doing some fasted training with a shake at the start or about 10mins prior.

I read over at leangains.com that studies have shown a better hormonal response this way, however, I think the studies overlooked the fact that your work capacity is hindered by a lack of blood glucose.

Now, I moved back to what I normally did - I have class at 11 every day, so I eat a good size (600 or so calories, i'm cutting weight) meal of carbs/protein/fat.

I personally like potatoes and eggs for breakfast, the yolk makes potatoes cooked in non-stick spray taste amazing. ^_^


Oh and I should add I almost always work out at 1pm.

So, usually it's got about 3 hours to digest.


Last edited by NightFaLL on Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:46 am 
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RobertB wrote:
Yup it was the unhomogenised stuff :) very nice.


It makes you instantly stronger. :grin:

KPj


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:16 am 
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KPj wrote:
RobertB wrote:
Yup it was the unhomogenised stuff :) very nice.


It makes you instantly stronger. :grin:

KPj


and fatter. Hahaha


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:41 am 
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Power bellies are the way forward :grin:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:29 am 
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haha so that's the new eupehmism for being a big fatty eh? I like it


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:08 pm 
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stuward wrote:
For what it's worth, getting "freaky ripped" is not possible without paying attention to the finer point like workout nutrition. The details count.

The details definitely count - but it's possible to get freaky ripped without "paying attention". See any indigenous hunter tribe - those guys all look like they're in the 4% BF range.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:34 pm 
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I know kpj is joking, but I really do see people not considering different goals...or posters not considering their goals enough. Power belly is not the path to "freaky ripped". If the goal is to powerlift or play NFL lineman...or be in a contest twice a year and not care if you look disgusting he rest of the year, fine. But if the guy says "freaky ripped" then he should think of what will get him there. A lot of people would be better served in terms of what they really value (looking good naked) if they "culked" instead of GFHed.

Also, Alan Aragon has talked a LOT about how important fundamentals are FIRST, before worrying about minutia (for example meal timing). He would be the first to say that total calorie intake is most important. Total macronutrient intake next, and workout meal optimization pretty far down the line. Also, that a WIDE variation of nutrient composition is fine as long as total calories are low enought and protein meets the minimum threshold. If the poster in question has not dieted his bf down to reasonable levels than he is OBVIOSLY not taking care of fundamentals but asking questions on the minutia.

I don't know...maybe he has taken care of the basics. But we shoudl at least CHECK. First.

[/not trolling, just disagreeing]


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:45 pm 
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ApolytonGP wrote:
...If the poster in question has not dieted his bf down to reasonable levels than he is OBVIOSLY not taking care of fundamentals but asking questions on the minutia.

...


I'm in total agreement with this but the question was about "Freaky ripped". I take that as being bodybuilding contest shape. You obviously can't get there unless you have no trouble getting to single digits already. The OP, who posts here often, was exploring how to get to that "freaky ripped" stage. For the record, that's something I've never accomplished.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:03 pm 
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Stu you're spot-on with your definition of "freaky" ripped. I want to have all the disgusting looking striations and things. I am already ripped but I want to take it one step further.

I've basically eliminated all carbs except for breakfast and post-workout. One of the major improvements I'm seeing is the massive volume of veg I'm eating now.

Whether or not I get as lean as I'm trying to, I've already got a good bit healthier.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:29 am 
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I wasn't actually joking :grin:

The question was about what everyone ate/drank peri workout. I actually answered with 100% honesty.

KPj


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:13 am 
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I would hope to think that the power belly thing was the joke he was referring to. Full fat milk is a perfectly acceptable post workout drink. It would help replenish glycogen levels and stimulate protein uptake and probably encourage growth hormone and testostrone production.


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