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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:20 am 
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What do you think of this workout for someone who has being going to the gym for a few months and doing well?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:05 am 
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If thats your order of exercises, you should be doing bench press and deadlift first on their respective days. I disagree with some of those *s...DB preacher curl, lat pulldown, leg curl, shrugs...just to name some of those that arent exercises everyone needs to include (epecially the preacher and leg curls..)

Im not really understanding the thinking with the rest periods on some of those weeks. For instance week 1 has 8-10 reps with 120 sec rest, then on week 2 youre not only dropping reps but also dropping time. You'll probably only be able to handle a small increase in weight given the 30 sec less rest you'll be getting. I would think it would make more sense going from 8-10 reps at 90 sec to week 2 being 4-7 reps with 120 sec. Less reps, more rest since you're increasing the weight used.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:41 am 
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Hi! You have found a great forum, welcome.

Workout 1:
You do realize the hanging weighted leg lift is NOT for the abs, right?
If you are doing flat flys+incline bench press that is more than enough for the anterior delts. Scratch the shoulder press. You won't be able to lift any high weight on it anyway, they'll be out of gas.
Try to twist on those weighted side bends, it's great!
the hanging weighted inverted ab crunch is pretty advanced. Did you try incline weighted crunches? Simple, quick, and effective.
I would use your exercises as rest. For instance, flat db flys, then side bends to give your chest a breather, then back to pec deck flys.

Workout 2:
Seated row should come before lat pull down.
Are those regular deadlifts? Stiff legged is better if back is your target, like for me.
Triceps the day after chest? Ouch! Aren't they sore as hell?
The deadlifts use your erector only as far as back, so you can use it as a rest between pull down and rows.
Have you thought about rear delt rows? I know my anterior delts got huge and looked really funny next to my small rear delts until i started doing rear delt rows.

Workout 3:
If you change deadlifts to stiff legged deadlifts, you can reduce leg curls to one or two sets easily.
Try standing one legged calf raises to reduce the weight on your shoulders on that machine. It always bothered me.
DB preacher curls are NOT for the biceps. They are for the brachialis. I had crappy biceps until I started doing DB incline curls. If you're going to do a brachialis exercise, do them after the biceps exercise.
How come the forearms exercise section only includes something for flexors? What about extensors?

Geez why are there only two rest days per week? You build muscles on your off days, not your workout days.

Good luck! Keep us posted.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:51 am 
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I agree with Jeff in addition I am not big on flys. Dumbbell flys can at least be superset with bench. I really think the pec deck is a useless peice of equipment. So many people seem to be so obsessed with it though.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:50 pm 
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DeadFrog wrote:
Hi! You have found a great forum, welcome.

Workout 1:
You do realize the hanging weighted leg lift is NOT for the abs, right?
If you are doing flat flys+incline bench press that is more than enough for the anterior delts. Scratch the shoulder press. You won't be able to lift any high weight on it anyway, they'll be out of gas.


Thanks! I have actually not being doing that abdominal section anyway, I have just been doing crunches. I have been doing this routine for about 6 weeks - although slightly modified.

As Jeff D recommended giving a bit more time as the sets/weights are increased.. I have been doing that anyway. I also have had an extra rest day inbetween - so 3 rest days per week.

Good tip re dropping the shoulder presses, I have noticed that I don't have much gas for that!

Regarding pec dec, I am going to drop that. I have found it is hurting my shoulders (rotar cuffs perhaps.. not sure?).

Quote:
Workout 2:
Seated row should come before lat pull down.


Thanks.

Quote:
Triceps the day after chest? Ouch! Aren't they sore as hell?
The deadlifts use your erector only as far as back, so you can use it as a rest between pull down and rows.
Have you thought about rear delt rows? I know my anterior delts got huge and looked really funny next to my small rear delts until i started doing rear delt rows.


Nah, they aren't particularly sore. I have really been trying to eat right and I have been having pre workout and PWO shakes - and been having some daytime shakes inbetween meals etc. I haven't noticed lots of soreness other than with things like squats (other than when I first started out). Which by the way, I am not on particularly heavy weights (as far as weights go.. for me they can be heh) can dumbbell squats be effective (as effective) than using the smith machine or whatever. I have a disliking for the machines and I don't have a training partner at the moment.

I would like to add rear delt rows I think.

Quote:
Workout 3:
If you change deadlifts to stiff legged deadlifts, you can reduce leg curls to one or two sets easily.


Sounds good.

Quote:
Try standing one legged calf raises to reduce the weight on your shoulders on that machine. It always bothered me.


Sounds good also, although, at the moment I don't have a huge amount of weight on it as I am still pretty lean :)


Quote:
DB preacher curls are NOT for the biceps. They are for the brachialis. I had crappy biceps until I started doing DB incline curls. If you're going to do a brachialis exercise, do them after the biceps exercise.
How come the forearms exercise section only includes something for flexors? What about extensors?


All very good points. TO be honest I got this routine off the internet - this is a routine which some 'very experienced people' recommended some others who are wanting to get into a bit better training program use.

Surely there is a program out there which is a bit better suited to me, or should I just make the changes recommended?

Quote:
Geez why are there only two rest days per week? You build muscles on your off days, not your workout days.


Yeah, I was adding some days in between actually.

I'm wondering if I should try and find a new program actually - I don't wanna ask the instructors at my gym to do it, I have had them do it before and they always give really lame isolation exercises etc... lots of machines too.

Good to hear from you all.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:13 am 
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Yea, personal trainers tend to do that. Most of them don't seem to know what they are doing.

If you like the 3 day split, maybe try one of the templates from this site. Like push/pull/legs or something like that. Then just add in free weight exercises for each muscle group listed in the template. You can add a little volume to it if you like. Just make sure you have an exercise that targets each thing. Everythig you need is in the exercise and muscle directory. We can help too, if you want.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:16 am 
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Ironman wrote:
Yea, personal trainers tend to do that. Most of them don't seem to know what they are doing.

Everythig you need is in the exercise and muscle directory. We can help too, if you want.


How about this 4 way split...?

Quote:
Intermediate (I'll use the same split as the beginner routine, but I suggest going heavier - 6-8 reps)

Monday Quads/hamstrings

Squats (4 sets)
Leg press (3sets)
Leg extensions (2 sets)
Leg curls (3 sets)
Stiff leg deadlift (3 sets)

Tuesday Chest/triceps

Bench press (3 sets)
Incline dumbell press (3 sets)
Dips (2 sets)
Close grip bench press (3 sets)
Skullcrushers (3 sets)

Thursday Back/biceps

Deadlift (4 sets)
Barbell rows (3 sets)
Pullups (3 sets)
Dumbell rows (2 sets)
Barbell curls (3 sets)
Incline dumbell curls (3 sets)

Friday Shoulders/calves

Military press (3 sets) Seated dumbell press as alternative
Side laterals (3 sets) I prefer seated
Rear laterals (3 sets)
Shrugs (3 sets) Barbell or dumbell
Standing calf raises (3 sets)
Seated calf raises (3 sets)


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:45 pm 
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That mostly looks good. Maybe drop the leg extension because there is a bit much quad work. Maybe just a set or 2 less for biceps and triceps. Other then that it looks good. A little high on the volume if you max out each set, but if you pyramid or don't go to failure on every set it looks fine.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:01 am 
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Ironman wrote:
That mostly looks good. Maybe drop the leg extension because there is a bit much quad work. Maybe just a set or 2 less for biceps and triceps. Other then that it looks good. A little high on the volume if you max out each set, but if you pyramid or don't go to failure on every set it looks fine.


Pyramid? Is that dropping weight in following sets or dropping reps?

I usually do go to failure, or at least near failure (which I have read is just as good as going to failure heh).

What about rest times between sets? 2mins? Vary it..?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:19 am 
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With a pyramid you can raise or lower the weight. If your rest time is 2 minutes, you are probably ok. With that you will only really max out on the first set. After that it won't be as taxing because you haven't rested long enough for maximum force. Going near failure is probably a good idea with this workout.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:14 am 
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The whole point to slpitting it four ways is to reduce fatigue of synergists and be in the gym for a short period of time. Sounds like a lot of sets, and lots of overkill there. With a four way split you should be in the gym for 40 minutes to an hour.

I believe and have practiced the low volume, progressive intensity principle.

If it were me, I'd go for less sets:

Monday Quads/hamstrings

Squats ( 3 sets)
Leg press (1 set)
Leg curls (2 sets)
Leg extensions (1 set)

Tuesday Chest/triceps

Bench press (3 sets)
Incline dumbell press (2 sets)
Dips (2 sets)
Close grip bench press (1 set)
Skullcrushers (1 set)

Thursday Back/biceps

Stiff leg deadlift (2 sets)
Barbell rows (2 sets)
Pullups (2 sets)
Rear laterals (2 sets)
Incline dumbell curls (2 sets)

Friday Shoulders/calves

Military press (2 sets) Seated dumbell press as alternative
Side laterals (2 sets) I prefer seated
Shrugs (2 sets) Barbell or dumbell
Standing calf raises (3 sets)
Seated calf raises (1 sets)

But that's why I don't split it up like that, because it's a lot on the same day, and it's hard to do a lot of weight. For instance, I do leg press on a different day than deadlift. When I first started out, I did four hours a day every other day in the gym. Now that I know what I am doing (avoiding overtraining, too many sets), it's two hours a session twice a week. You can get away with too many sets while the weight is still low, just not later on. Keep in mind I am talking aobut traditional sets, like BB bench press = 135, 170, 190.


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