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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:02 pm 
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Maybe this belongs in the general section...but i'm just curious.

Like the title suggests, has anyone here achieved single digit bodyfat, without cardio? (Cardio sucks!)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:37 pm 
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Some of us have never achieved single digit numbers, period.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:54 pm 
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Just eat less. The benefit of some cardio in the mix is that you can eat a bit more. Or you can diet down faster.

But why wouldn't you be able to get to 9% without cardio? I would think there are a huge amount of people that have achieved this and that 95%+ of people can do so.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:21 pm 
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Just eating less is not the answer. When you go down that low there is a big risk of losing substantial muscle. You need to be scientific with it. I'm not convinced "cardio" is required. HIIT plus some low level activity on top of strength training should do it.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:17 pm 
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yep, eating less and doing cardio are the same. Most bodybuilders do a lot of cardio while cutting. This is because they eat too much for a cutting diet.

Some people are not going to get to single digits without some sort of chemical help. Genetics are a VERY big factor.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:43 pm 
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Rick: why not just get yourself down to 9% and then tell us how much muscle you lost? See if your lifts go down.

The muscle wastage isn't stopping you. It's your fear of the wastage.

That and beer and ice cream. Diet down and see what happens.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 2:14 am 
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Muscle is pretty hard to lose.

It will happen with a protein deficiency but otherwise your body isn't just going to start burning off all your muscle. Even with extremely low calories your body releases a hormone to help stop this from happening (well until it needs it, like if there is not enough protein or not enough bodyfat and caloric intake).

That said, you don't need to run (if that's what you don't like). When I really don't feel like running but I need to do something I'll walk up Twin Peaks or maybe up a mountain and hike it. Swimming is good, too (lap swimming).

Otherwise it's just a matter of tapering your diet to your average daily caloric expenditure.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:46 am 
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Hmm...interesting mix of opinions already.

I'd agree that the fear of losing muscle is probably the biggest factor stopping me (and probably most lifters) from cutting that low. After all, who wants to see all their hard work being used as fuel. I wonder though at what level the body starts to break down muscle? 10%? 8%? 4%? Why break down muscle, if theres fat available to burn.

I'm following a low carb approch to my diet anyway, i'm losing about 2 pounds a week at the moment, not had icecream or beer for months. I actually don't like beer anymore.

I've never seen the point in eating extra and then just running it off. Surely thats like filling my car full of fuel, then making a hole in the tank because i'm concerned I put too much in for the journey ahead!

apolytonGP wrote:
But why wouldn't you be able to get to 9% without cardio? I would think there are a huge amount of people that have achieved this and that 95%+ of people can do so.


So far, no-one here has said they have done it.

The only benifit of cardio, must be time related. i.e. 12 weeks prep for a competition. It would be interseting to see what % pro bodybuilders average out at off-season.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:37 am 
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Complexes.

Just tell yourself that it's not cardio, but do them low weight, fast and intensely. It's not cardio. It's weight training.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:23 am 
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Ricky wrote:
Muscle is pretty hard to lose.


?

:eek:

There is a reason people risk their life and health loading up on drugs while cutting, and it isn't for fun.

Your body doesn't want to hold onto muscle in a calorie deficit. It is more expensive in a caloric sense. Without a stimulus to hold it, your body will dump muscle.


Quote:
Otherwise it's just a matter of tapering your diet to your average daily caloric expenditure.


getting under 10% is not this easy. In a macro sense, yes, but not in practice.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:32 am 
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Rik-Blades wrote:
It would be interseting to see what % pro bodybuilders average out at off-season.


Everyone is going to vary, and it depends on their response to gear and what stage of development they are in.

Younger guys are probably going to gain more fat in the offseason trying to put on max amounts of muscle. Older, more advanced guys, or dudes who are amazing responders to gear, might stay leaner year round. I mean there will come a time where you are only going to be able to add a 1lb or 2 of stage weight a year, gear or no gear, fat or no fat, those guys aren't going to gain a lot of BF in the off season, there is no reason to. But someone only 5 or 6 years in, who can still pack on 4 or 5lbs of stage weight in a year might gain a bit more fat than someone else just to get the dry muscle.

I'm sort of speculating here, but it does vary per individual, based on their own preferences and genetics.

But 20% on someone who is 270 and 20% on someone who is 170 are two very different looks. They guy who is 270 is probably going to have abs showing.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:35 am 
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if having a six pack = 10% bodyfat or less like a lot of folk (Christian Thibaudeau included) think, then I've done it without ever setting foot on a treadmill

Recently my girlfriend's even commented on me looking more ripped, and the only change I've made is switching to a carb cycling diet.

If your genetics allow it then it can be done. Don't get me wrong though, I am very aware that my genetics are good for not carrying fat, but not everyone else is in the same boat as me


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:39 am 
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to the OP:

Do 12 weeks of German Volume Training. It's not technically cardio, but if your diet is good you will nto only get bigger but you will DEFINITELY lose some fat


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:41 am 
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Age has a lot to do with it. When I was in my 20s, I was ripped all the time but I haven't really seen my abs since I was 30. I didn't do cardio but I had no trouble walking several miles to get to where I needed to go. I'm pretty sure the city I lived in had a bus service but I never used it. I never really thought of it as exercise.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:43 am 
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stuward wrote:
Age has a lot to do with it. When I was in my 20s, I was ripped all the time but I haven't really seen my abs since I was 30. I didn't do cardio but I had no trouble walking several miles to get to where I needed to go. I'm pretty sure the city I lived in had a bus service but I never used it. I never really thought of it as exercise.


that's a good point, I'm in my 20s and I walk a half hour journey to work every day. I'll be damned if I ever lose my precious abs though!


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