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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:34 am 
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I have recently added caesin protein to my supplement list. Please tell what should be ideal consumption ratio (i.e. whey and caesin), If I am on a 220 gm protein diet.
I wish to take around four to five scoops of supplement (one scoop is 24gms) and get remaining protein from my foods.
Thanks.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:04 am 
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In Memoriam: TimD
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I'll just describe the differences in whey and cassein, and you have to decide what you take and when. Kenny Crox is much more into this than I am, and I'm hoping he will chime in here.
Like carbs, protein actually has a framework similar to the Glycemic Index (GI) in that some proteins are digeste at different rates/times. The wheys are very eaily digestible, and can enter and be absorbed into the bloodstream very quickly. Best used after workouts and in conjunction with rthe casseins for breakfast (after some long fasting- time of day doesn't reall matter). Casseins take a bit longer to digest, are good any time, but especially when you aren't eating large meals, and taken to establish a"dribble" of amino acids to your muscle .
Tell us what your goals and eating habits are, and we can help more.
Tim


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:16 am 
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Cassein you would want more during a main meal and an hour before exercise. Whey you would want with in 30 mins after exercising.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:21 pm 
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TimD wrote:
I'll just describe the differences in whey and cassein, and you have to decide what you take and when. Kenny Crox is much more into this than I am, and I'm hoping he will chime in here.
Like carbs, protein actually has a framework similar to the Glycemic Index (GI) in that some proteins are digeste at different rates/times. The wheys are very eaily digestible, and can enter and be absorbed into the bloodstream very quickly. Best used after workouts and in conjunction with rthe casseins for breakfast (after some long fasting- time of day doesn't reall matter). Casseins take a bit longer to digest, are good any time, but especially when you aren't eating large meals, and taken to establish a"dribble" of amino acids to your muscle .
Tell us what your goals and eating habits are, and we can help more.
Tim


Tim, you pretty much covered it. Reseach show that whey is digested in about 100 minutes. Whey hydrolyzed absorbed much faster...perhaps twenty minutes.

Caseinate is digested in about 300 minutes. Like time says, caseinate "drippble" in...I consider it a time released protein.

Kenny Croxdale

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Thanks TimD.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:40 pm 
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ironmaiden708 wrote:
Cassein you would want more during a main meal and an hour before exercise. Whey you would want with in 30 mins after exercising.


To some extent taking caseinate prior to a workout makes some sense. However, Dr John Ivy (Nutrient Timing) recommends whey combined with a high glycemic index food, like maltodextrin.

The whey/maltodextrin is ingested about 30 minutes prior to your workout.

Ivy goes on to recommend that you sip a whey/maltodextrin beverage during your workout as well.

Then within 15 minutes of finishing your workout, you ingest another whey/maltodextrin beverage.

This mixture spikes insulin levels. Insulin is show to be one of the most anabloic hormones there is.

Also, insulin has been shown to shut down cortisol production, which is catabolic.

A positive effect is evoked when you ingest a high glyceminc index food prior, during and after your workout.

Ingesting a high glyceminc index food outside of the workouot time frame creates a problem. While insulin is an anabolic hormone, it is also a "fat making" hormone.

As nutritionist Jay Robb once stated, "Insulin is a fat maker and glucaton (a counter hormone to insulin) is a fat taker.

When insulin levels are low, glucagon come "out of it's cage"...so to speak.

Insulin levels are lowered and glucagon is increased when low glycemic index foods/complex carbohydrates are consumed.

By learning to manipulate these hormones in a positive way we can maximize our muscle gain and decrease body fat.

It's like using the right tool for the right job.

I have used a crescent wrench to hammer a knock a nail into a board but a hammer works a lot better.

Kenny Croxdale

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Thanks TimD.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:49 am 
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Thanks Kenny for the reply. I am a big fan of ur knowledge and do read all ur posts. But my main query here is consumption ratio. or simply If i have to take five scoops of protein from supplements (i.e. 125 gms in day) how much should come from whey and how much from casein. Presently my schedule is like below :

1) 25 gms of whey + 12 gms of caesin - 9:00 am

2) 24 gms of casein + 12 gms of whey - 5:00 Pm

Workouts - 7 PM

3) 24 gms of whey - 8 PM

4) 24 gms of caesin - 11. 30 PM

Is it alright or u suggest some alteration??

Goals are simple and stright - to get bigger


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:03 am 
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I'd like to see responses to this last post.
As I have recently bought cassein and have been using whey as well.

For now, I figure I'll use the cassein before bed a good deal of the time.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:51 am 
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Thanks for this information. I am just beginning to learn about all this stuff in order to maximize my training results. I am beginning to realize the importance of understanding the effect that different proteins have on our body, as well as how they are digested etc. Before I started down this road, I was really unaware of all of the science that needs to be taken into consideration. I really appreciate all the information that I can find in this regard.

Regards,
George


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