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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:17 pm 
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http://forums.prosource.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=18967

Whey, Caffeine and Creatine

Jim Stoppani, PhD

Whey protein, creatine and caffeine before every workout are all supplements that, taken individually pre-training, have been proven in numerous studies to boost workout performance, including muscle strength, endurance and workout intensity. Also well known are the muscle building effects of whey and creatine. A recent study shows that these three supplements stacked together post workout can boost your results.

Researchers from the University of Oklahoma (Norman) had subjects take either a whey, creatine and caffeine combo or a placebo before they ran on a treadmill for as fast as they could for as long as they could.

They reported in a 2010 issue of the journal Nutrition Research that when the subjects drank the whey/creatine/caffeine combo, they were able to run about 10% longer at their “all-out” pace. Since this running at an all pace, which they could only maintain for a couple of minutes, this is more equivalent to weight lifting than it is to cardio. In other words, taking a combination of whey protein, creatine and caffeine before workouts can help you get more reps with a given weight. And that can lead to greater muscle growth.

As we regularly recommend, go with 20 grams of whey protein, 2-5 g of creatine and 200-400 milligrams of caffeine within 30 minutes before workouts.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:33 pm 
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Sounds good - though the link did have supplements this "offical rep" that etc so ...

It's all I use, but I just have the mentality of "its supposed to work" and people I consider worth listening to agree

I switched to a different program and when I did I used creatine and caffeine, before it was just whey. I really need to get myself some omega 3 caps - then that will be me done

Rest comes from being a mommas boy and getting served superb meals/cupboards being stocked nicely :)


One thing that's different though - my shakes (at the moment... I usually only have 2) are at 9:30am - 2pm (post workout with creatine) and around 10pm. I doubt you guys can actually feel the bennefit but is there logic to having a shake 30 mins before the session, perhaps with the caffeine?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:32 pm 
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Is there any point to taking creatine pre-workout? It gets stored, right?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:40 am 
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Today for the first time I used this supplement combination before exercising. This is the first time ever I have used a non-vitamin supplement.
I will be cycling these items into, and cleaning up, my diet (alcohol reduction) over the next two weeks while I work on power exercises.
My initial experience was positive. I felt my ability to exert force recovered very strongly today - I noticed what I thought was a reduced level of fatigue when attempting bodyweight/trx exercises. I did however notice an unusually fierce heartbeat while resting between farmers walks, but I suspect this was more based on the alcohol in my system than the caffeine. More news as it happens. It's interesting for me, anyway.

edit 23/3/11: tried putting this stuff into my morning coffee - it wasn't too bad, but bits of the whey solidifed as I didn't stir effectively, so I got little chewy protein bits. whey protein tasted better in milk than water.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:57 am 
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robt-aus wrote:
edit 23/3/11: tried putting this stuff into my morning coffee - it wasn't too bad, but bits of the whey solidifed as I didn't stir effectively, so I got little chewy protein bits. whey protein tasted better in milk than water.

This is disgusting. I hope it wasn't decent coffee that you treated with such unkindness.

Edit--Hey, it put that smilie into my post in place of the word d-i-s-g-u-s-t. Odd.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:45 am 
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sadly i did turn some locally roasted beans into a chewy drink. the experiment produced a result that will not be continued. i have learned this lesson. i'll be making and drinking the coffee separately.

i wonder what other words will be autoreplaced... i frequent a car forum that substitutes the names of automanufacturers with alternative terms to avoid these words being indexed by search engines and the site being associated with the "wrong" marque. can't see the benefit of hiding our disgust at my special chewy coffee. everyone should know it's pretty gross.

to keep on topic, i've found the whey protein palatable in full cream milk, and it's nearly unnoticable in ice cream made with buttermilk. adding a bit of cream seems to have improved (distracted me from?) the flavour and texture quite a lot. mmm. fatty goodness.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:28 am 
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this is a test

disgust
frown
laugh
laugh2
smile
eek
?
rollseyes


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:22 pm 
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Oscar_Actuary wrote:
this is a test

disgust
frown
laugh
laugh2
smile
eek
?
rollseyes


:disgust:
:frown:
:laughing1:
:laughing2:
:smile:
:eek:
:?:
:rollseyes:

You have to use a colon. I'm not sure why one worked without. There does appear to be one missing though. I'll look into that.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:20 am 
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Wow, I had always thought mixing creatine in with coffee or something acidic like orange juice would neutralize or destroy the creatine. Googleing "creatine caffeine" also suggests a number of negative relations.

"If you take creatine, high daily doses of caffeine will cancel out its effect. But the effect of caffeine is apparently not so strong that it’s no use at all to creatine takers." http://www.ergo-log.com/creatinecaffeine.html

I am certainly huge fans of all three, and I think that anyone who uses them correctly will be able to feel and see an obvious difference.

Taking creatine pre-workout ensures your muscles will have high levels of it exactly when they need it, which starts at your first rep.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:58 am 
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I normally have creatine after but occasionally before as well, depending on how much I've had recently. For the cost of both caffeine and creatine, it can't hurt to have both before, even for the placebo effect.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:56 pm 
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strathmeyer wrote:
Wow, I had always thought mixing creatine in with coffee or something acidic like orange juice would neutralize or destroy the creatine. Googleing "creatine caffeine" also suggests a number of negative relations.

"If you take creatine, high daily doses of caffeine will cancel out its effect. But the effect of caffeine is apparently not so strong that it’s no use at all to creatine takers." http://www.ergo-log.com/creatinecaffeine.html


Strathmeyer,

That information has been around for a while.

I guess what it comes down it, believe which every study you like.

Being a creatine "non-reponder" it all the same to me.


Quote:
I am certainly huge fans of all three, and I think that anyone who uses them correctly will be able to feel and see an obvious difference.

Taking creatine pre-workout ensures your muscles will have high levels of it exactly when they need it, which starts at your first rep.

Creatine doesn't enter you system that quickly enought to use during your workout.

David Bar's "Creatine Controversy" [ttp://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_supplements/the_creatine_controversy]is a good article "Creatine Timing". It also presents an interesting perspective with how to take ie year round instead of cycling it.

Kenny Croxdale

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:21 pm 
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Quote:
David Bar's "Creatine Controversy" [ttp://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_supplements/the_creatine_controversy]is a good article "Creatine Timing". It also presents an interesting perspective with how to take ie year round instead of cycling it.


Thank you Kenny. I like this article. Citations. Unemotional tone. A solid summary. Real discussion. Gold.
And it will make me rethink my approach. The caffeine point and usage advice was very useful.

I'm on day 10 of what i've decided is to be a 21 day introduction. I haven't controlled the variables enough to clearly identify what's happening. I'm sure in my workouts i'm pushing through a bit more volume and recovery/vigour has improved. But, this could be because
a) the protein, creatine has made a difference
b) i've dropped alcohol (my old friend)
c) i'm actually getting fitter (i'm doing so much bloody work but still resting)
d) placebo and b & c
e) b & c
f) ?
g) profit (sorry. South park joke. kinda.)

More observations to come. If anything, the protein is a really easy way of bringing up consumption levels in a reasonably cheap way. Reasonably. Currently it's either protein supplement or alcohol ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:22 am 
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Yep, underwear gnomes!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:11 am 
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Kenny--two questions.

First, what about non-workout days? Just creatine?

Second, what's your take on beta alanine?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:09 pm 
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bump

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