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 Post subject: BCAAs vs whey
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:50 am 
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why is it sometimes better to use BCAAs than protein powder? Or are BCAAs a sham and I've been duped? I've been doing the leangains IF thing for a few weeks now, and it recommends to train fasted but with 10g of BCAAs just before you train. I assume the BCAAs are to prevent catabolism during your workout.

What i was also thinking is that maybe BCAAs don't spike insulin the way whey would, so it's better for fat loss? I could well be wrong about that.

But then, if BCAAs are better than whey, why not just always use BCAAs (apart from the fact they're more expensive)?

Thoughts/opinions are appreciated as always.
Bob


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 Post subject: Re: BCAAs vs whey
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:59 pm 
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He says you can use whey if necessary - the point of the BCAAs is similar to whey vs milk, the BCAAs make up a portion of whey similar to the way whey makes up a portion of milk.

It's cutting out some of the extra amino acids/protein that aren't BCAAs (Isoleucine, Leucine, Valine)


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 Post subject: Re: BCAAs vs whey
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:19 pm 
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It's not a sham. If you want to gain lean muscle optimally, it's pretty well essential. I've been looking into it for my daughter who's been in hospital for the last couple of months and needs to gain a lot of muscle.
BCAAs will be taken up faster in a fasted state. If you take them all with other proteins, you won't get the same effect since they compete with each other. Remember Leucine is the key amino acid for muscle growth. If you have BCAAs, take them at least 1/2 hour before you take other proteins. The same thing applies post workout. Take them right after your workout and follow up after with whey. Whey will do the job, just not quite as well.

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 Post subject: Re: BCAAs vs whey
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:23 pm 
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stuward would you say its okay to take some BCAAs first thing in the morning, then have your morning meal? (I usually just have porridge then head straight to the gym).
Then afterwards you take BCAAs again and with your whey.

But since it's meant to be better to take BCAAs fasted would it make a huge difference to take them before a carby breakfast? I usually try and have a carby breakfast, carbs post workout then keep them low as possible for the rest of the day.


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 Post subject: Re: BCAAs vs whey
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:29 pm 
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It's all good. Take the BCAAs on rising, then prepare your breakfast. The important thing is just to separate the BCAAs from other proteins so they get a chance to do their thing before the meal. It's not just BCAAs, it's any amino acid taken for therapeutic purposes. They just become another component of protein otherwise.

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
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 Post subject: Re: BCAAs vs whey
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:38 pm 
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Alright, thanks. I'm going to look into getting some now :)

cant live without my breakfast ;)


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 Post subject: Re: BCAAs vs whey
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:25 pm 
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Sip on bcaas during workout and take whey post workout.

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 Post subject: Re: BCAAs vs whey
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:24 am 
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Thanks ironmaiden I like reading what you have to say on diet !


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 Post subject: Re: BCAAs vs whey
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:15 pm 
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ironmaiden708 wrote:
Sip on bcaas during workout and take whey post workout.


why is that?


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 Post subject: Re: BCAAs vs whey
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:17 pm 
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on a side note, Stu I hope your daughter is on the mend


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 Post subject: Re: BCAAs vs whey
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:25 pm 
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robertscott wrote:
on a side note, Stu I hope your daughter is on the mend


Thanks, she's getting there.

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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 Post subject: Re: BCAAs vs whey
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:57 pm 
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robertscott wrote:
ironmaiden708 wrote:
Sip on bcaas during workout and take whey post workout.


why is that?


Because it allows for better performance through more stable blood glucose levels. Also it would be wise to not take along with whey because of competitive inhibition, leucine trumping all other AAs. A summary I wrote on a different website with additional info:


Quote:
Why supplement with BCAAs?
Branched-Chain Amino Acids (BCAAs) are three amino acids that make up approximately 1/3 of our total skeletal muscle mass, amino acids are leucine, isoleucine, and valine. BCAA supplementation has been shown to have a protein sparing effect post workout either through decreased protein degradation and/or stimulated protein synthesis.Also it has been shown to effectively decrease muscle fatigue and muscle soreness which was indicated by lower serum enzyme levels, this indicates you should be able to put in a better workout and have enhanced recovery through supplementation. BCAAs have also been shown to have a protein sparing effect during exercise and is indicated by reduced proteolysis (muscle catabolism) within skeletal muscle. Another benefit to BCAA supplementation is that it has been shown to increase lipid oxidation by muscles which in turn results in more stable blood glucose levels. BCAA's have also been shown to significantly stimulate insulin secretion, in turn will enhance recovery.

What to buy?
When you buy BCAAs you tend to find them in a ratio of 2:1:1 (Leu : isoleu : val). Check to see if that ratio correct in the product before you buy it. Other then that it comes down to price and flavor preference. The flavor is said to be not too pleasant, my suggestion would be to either try to mix it with a sweetener like crystal light, cap it, or buy it in capsule form...or man up and deal with it.

Key points:

-Enhanced recovery
-Enhances workout through more stable blood glucose levels
-Muscle protein sparing effect


Quick summary on competitive inhibition:

Quote:
One huge reason is due to competitive inhibition between the amino acids. Amino acids absorb via carrier mediated transport, in other words active transport and is done through specific carriers. When neutral amino acids are in a large quantity in the small intestines competitive inhibition occurs due to side-chain size and how it interacts with transport characteristics. Neutral amino acids with large lipophilic side-chains (ex: leucine) have a higher affinity towards absorption. The absorption of these "stronger" aminos is extremely powerful and will block the absorption of virtually all the other neutral amino acids and will continue until these other stronger amino acids are depleted. Acidic amino acids are in general inhibited by the neutral amino acids.


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Vitamin Thread: http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=4360
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 Post subject: Re: BCAAs vs whey
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:17 am 
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wow thank you very much for such a detailed reply, that tells me everything i wanted to know


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 Post subject: Re: BCAAs vs whey
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:00 am 
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Rather than start another thread I thought I'd just keep my questions with this one....

Is there a reason I would need to take whey (isolate) and BCAAs (essential, as a supplement) or can I just replace whey with BCAAs? Is it a matter of cost or is there a nutritional benefit from whey that I wouldn't get from BCAAs? I get enough protein from real food; this is just for before/after workouts.

For a BCAA supplementation, should I expect to equal the same amount I would find in whey? For instance, let's say I have a whey isolate that has 2600g of leucine. Should I match that amount of leucine if I plan to replace whey with a BCAA supplement or are BCAAs - when taken without whey - more concentrated?

TIA


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 Post subject: Re: BCAAs vs whey
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:41 am 
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The argument against BCAAs is simply that they are more processed than whey and therefore less of a whole food. The argument for BCAAs is that they concentrate the effective amino acids to be used at the specific time that they are useful. The whole protein has a different purpose than BCAAs so it's not a one for one exchange. In my opinion, taking BCAAs at times other pre/post workouts is useless, whereas whole protein should be freely available in your body constantly.

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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