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 Post subject: Nice to "Meat" You...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:48 pm 
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Terrible pun thread name oh yeah :twisted:

Okay on to business, I've been doing some research and it has been hard to find reputable sources, so what would you guys say are some of the healthiest/best meats to eat regularly? More specifically, I'm making the transition to a carb-restricted diet to lose fat, so I was curious on meats that were healthy and can supplement my other foods. Also, I understand the whole fish thing, as of recently I've been substituting meat in some meals with wild salmon, which is supposedly extremely good for you. From what I've seen, the winners are Chicken (skinless), Turkey, and Pork (as I said, sources unreliable, want further clarification). Also, what's the take on sandwich meats? Some sites mention they may be bad for you as well and could be over-processed, and yet again no trusted resources there.

If anyone can supply their answers with either a reputable source, or personal experience, that would be great.




Side ramble (not necessarily specific to this thread, feel free to not read):
I've recently been on the road to eating healthier, and it feels great. I have more energy, feel more upbeat, and am excited. Why excited? I've only been changing little things at a time here, and in terms of re-vamping and changing my diet for the better, I consider myself only about 25% of the way complete. If I feel this great now, I can't imagine how good I'll feel in a few weeks!
Also to keep in mind: I'm 21, about 5'10, and weigh around 275. I estimate my BF% to be in the range of 35-40% if not more. My goal is to drop about 15-20% in about a year or so (I'm thinking labor day 2012).
Sorry about this whole ramble, I'm just really excited and happy because at first when I set that goal I thought it was going to be a very hard stretch, but now between eating better, being consistent with lifting, and supplementing cardio, I'm feeling like my goal is easier and easier every day! (I'll stop now :razz: )

-Nick P.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:23 pm 
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Going low carb, by definition means going higher fat. You have picked low fat meats that actually may not be optimal. The best meat comes from herbivores. Get meat as close to wild as you can. The fat in wild or grass fed meat is high in mono unsaturates, omeaga 3, CLA and steric acid (a healthy saturated fat). Conversely going with the leaner meats you've listed would increase your consumption of omega 6 fats whic are pro-inflamatory and probably counter to your objectives.

The best thing to buy your meat and eggs at a farmer's market. Organ meats, especially liver, are highly nutritious. When in doubt, err on the side of variety.

I recommend you read "The Paleo Solution" by Robb Wolfe. "The Paleo Diet" by Cordain has been recently been updated. If you read the first edition, ignore it. He was anti-saturated fats and has since softened his position. Saturated fated, especially Steric Acid can boost your testosterone, helping you gain muscle and lose fat.

Sandwich meats, along with bacon, sausage and all processed meats in general, should be an occational treat. It's not that the meat is bad, it's the fillers and additives that may or may not be present.

What source are you basing your "low carb" approach on? There ia a lot of good and bad information out there.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:58 pm 
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ok, but for normal people
Stu, sometimes you make this seem too hard.

I mean there's a big distinction between optimal and good, but not as big as the distinction between eating the crap most of us do, to switching to a better diet.


..in a rush...


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:06 pm 
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Thanks for the quick response!

stuward wrote:
I recommend you read "The Paleo Solution" by Robb Wolfe. "The Paleo Diet" by Cordain has been recently been updated. If you read the first edition, ignore it. He was anti-saturated fats and has since softened hi position. Saturated fated, especially Steric Acid can boost your testosterone, helping you gain muscle and lose fat.


I'll take a look into it as soon as I can.


stuward wrote:
The best thing to buy your meat and eggs at a farmer's market. Organ meats, especially liver, are highly nutritious. When in doubt, err on the side of variety.


Unfortunately being a lowly college student gives me limited funds... That being said I'll research local farmer's markets in the area and try to find some good deals. I'll try to distribute my funds in good ways and on better foods, maybe I can even get a little help from the parents... Unlikely but worth a shot lol


stuward wrote:
What source are you basing your "low carb" approach on? There ia a lot of good and bad information out there.


Well mostly through traversing the forums and the internet in general, It seems for cutting fat having a lower carb intake is effective. With that being said, I already knew I had been way, way to carb happy. Literally used to eat a carb packed cereal for breakfast, sandwich or two on white bread for lunch (or a footlong sub from a deli), and a lot of pasta (with a meat) for dinner. My balance was all messed up.
As for right now, I've still to decide on a specific "program," but I am monitoring the amount of carbs I'm taking in a day. Definitely not as much as I used to, and also replacing all bread products with unrefined breads, and getting more carbs from fruits, berries, etc. After about a week or so of "counting carbs," and with further research, I'm going to assess my current situation and see if I need to get rid of more carbs or stay about where I am right now. Obviously with all of this going on still monitoring my diet in general, i.e. having enough protein, eating my veggies, 5-6 small meals per day, etc.

As I said I still have a long ways to go, and still am learning (like your statements about o3 and o6, never knew that...), but I'm taking strides to being healthier. My main concern is that since I basically spent 21 years with blinders on, it's a lot of info for me to learn and begin to practice, and I really don't want to mess up lol. I'm taking it a little bit slow, but I'd rather take it slow and have a better chance of succeeding than try to rush it and get discouraged. Anyways I'm rambling again, I'll stop now. Thanks again for the excellent response!!!

-Nick P.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:07 pm 
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Nick, one other book I want to recommend it "the Warrior diet" by Ori Hofmekler. It's not "low carb" so much as real food but the big thing is "when" to eat. The basics is to undereat during the day, eating until you're satisfied once a day, in the evening. Overall your calories are lower than normal, you're low carb most of the day, but you support muscle building and your metabolism through the evening meal.

Eating good food doesn't have to be expensive. You don't need huge amounts of protein. Eat protein at each meal but your portions can be small. Organ meats are really cheap. Fill up on vegetables, primarily greens. Buy the 1 lb, already washed tubs of mixed greens. They cost a few dollars but can form the base for several meals. Depending on the season, you can get good deals on broccolli, colliflower, chard, spinach, etc. In the winter, root vegetables will be your staples. Eggs and cheese are affordable sources of good fats and protein. Make sure you get full fat dairy and eat whole eggs. Although whole grains are better than refined grain, they're not as good as "no grains". You can probably save money by avoiding grains althogether and increasing your vegetable intake.

Oscar, you are absolutely right. I make it complicated just to bug you. Seriously,cutting the junk food is 90% of the battle. That's very hard to do when you're hungry all the time. The temptation to pig out is just too great.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:27 pm 
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What's your stance on canned
wild salmon
tuna
chicken


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:28 pm 
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if you can't afford the grass fed meat then don't worry too much about it. As long as you're cooking everything from scratch, watching your carbs and not eating junk then that'll be enough


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:32 pm 
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Oscar_Actuary wrote:
What's your stance on canned
wild salmon
tuna
chicken


I eat canned salmon and sardines almost everyday. They are high in sodium so if you have high blood pressue, you might want to look for reduced salt stuff. You also want to make sure it's not packed in some weird oil like soy.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:43 pm 
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............... More breakdown time =D

stuward wrote:
Nick, one other book I want to recommend it "the Warrior diet" by Ori Hofmekler. It's not "low carb" so much as real food but the big thing is "when" to eat. The basics is to undereat during the day, eating until you're satisfied once a day, in the evening. Overall your calories are lower than normal, you're low carb most of the day, but you support muscle building and your metabolism through the evening meal.


Another one I'll try to look into as soon as I can, thanks for the good references!


stuward wrote:
Eating good food doesn't have to be expensive.


lifegoddess.com/2011/06/15/cutting-costs-at-the-grocery-store-do-it-right/
Still not technically allowed to post links, but here's an article I came across today that shed a different sort of light on it. I know I can make it work somehow...


stuward wrote:
Organ meats are really cheap


Something I was going to mention earlier but it slipped my mind - Organ meats have slipped my mind lol. But seriously, When I was younger my father was the kind of person to never put anything to waste, so I had liver, heart, and other organs on occasion. And I don't know if I'm wierd or something, but I LOVED it. Next time I go grocery shopping I'll keep my eyes open.


The next part, about veggies, is kind of what I'm working on now. I've increased my intake of bell peppers (love), cauliflower (like), baby spinach (love), and carrots (indifferent). I'm mainly going to add asparagus and broccoli, but am still looking for other healthy veggies and variations I could use as well.


stuward wrote:
Make sure you get full fat dairy and eat whole eggs.


Can you elaborate please? Full fat as in whole milk? And by whole eggs do you mean not just whites? This sentence confused me a bit, apologies......


stuward wrote:
Although whole grains are better than refined grain, they're not as good as "no grains". You can probably save money by avoiding grains althogether and increasing your vegetable intake.


When I read no grains, no lies I got a little scared. Being from a traditional Italian family pasta and bread was a staple (such a fan of good bread :frown: ). Obviously you are right, but like I said I'm trying to take it slow, so I'll try to weekly decrease grains little by little, until... no bread? That just feels wierd hahaa but what has to be done has to be done!

-Nick P.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:46 pm 
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@robert-

Although a big guy, I have never been a fan of most "junk foods." What I'm starting to do, however, is reconsider the term, in the sense that junk food isn't only like chips, cookies and soda etc., but also foods that can be unhealthy for me (especially in bulk).

And I cook everything from scratch, no worries there.

-nick

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:21 pm 
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Don Matesz has written a lot about eating well on a budget. Interestingly he talks about conventional beef in the series as well. http://donmatesz.blogspot.com/search/la ... a%20budget

Grains should be occational foods, but for some people, they should be avoided completely.

By full fat dairy, I mean whole milk, cream, butter and cheese. Stay away from reduced fat foods in general. The fat that is removed is almost always replaced with sugar and MSG, both of which should be minimized. Ironically, the fat that is removed is the healthiest part of the food. In fact, anyone with a problem with dairy, has a problem either with the sugar (lactose)or the protein (casein), never the fat. The fat carries vitamins (A,D,E,K) that are usually lacking in moderrn diets.

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:10 pm 
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nickp320 wrote:
From what I've seen, the winners are Chicken (skinless), Turkey


There's a lot of difference in white meat between darker cuts (i.e. legs) and lighter ones (i.e. breast). Darker meat has more fat and also a lot of it is Omega 6, so people who usually eat a lot of chicken tend to eat breast only (either because they waged war on fat or because they want to keep Omega 6 under control)

AFAICT skin is OK as long as the chicken has been roasted (fat has melted away).

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:19 pm 
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stuward wrote:
You don't need huge amounts of protein.


How much protein do you shoot for?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:28 pm 
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mark74 wrote:
stuward wrote:
You don't need huge amounts of protein.


How much protein do you shoot for?


1 g/lb LBM is the most anyone needs, about 2/3 g/LBM is about the minimum. You can get by on less than that but if you're trying to lose weight, it is filling so it's a good idea to get a little more. In Nick's case, his LBM is about 175. That would be at most about about 180 g or 3 eggs, 1 1/2 lb meat or fish and 3 glasses of milk. The least would about 120 g or 2 eggs, 1 lb meat or fish and 2 glasses of milk.

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:05 pm 
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stuward wrote:
In Nick's case, his LBM is about 175. That would be at most about about 180 g or 3 eggs, 1 1/2 lb meat or fish and 3 glasses of milk. The least would about 120 g or 2 eggs, 1 lb meat or fish and 2 glasses of milk.


Most of which should be eaten for dinner??
Seems to me there's a limit to how much protein your body can consume/digest/process in one sitting. And any extra is turned to fat. (Oversimplifying for clarity.)
stuward wrote:
Nick, one other book I want to recommend it "the Warrior diet" by Ori Hofmekler. It's not "low carb" so much as real food but the big thing is "when" to eat. The basics is to undereat during the day, eating until you're satisfied once a day, in the evening.


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