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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:29 am 
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bam wrote:
...Most of which should be eaten for dinner??
Seems to me there's a limit to how much protein your body can consume/digest/process in one sitting. And any extra is turned to fat. (Oversimplifying for clarity.)
...


Staying hungry during the day doesn't mean not eating, it means undereating. Any meals during the day should be primarily protein with fat. However, there is no proven limit in how much protein can be consumed in one meal. The rate of protein digestion is well known but it appears that protein digestion can go on for quite some time. It appears that you can go up to 60 hours without eating at all before your body starts consuming muscle. The 30g/meal number that is often quoted is a marketing gimmick to sell protein powder and expensive chocolate bars. And it's extra calories that turn to fat, not just protein.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:09 am 
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stuward wrote:
1 g/lb LBM is the most anyone needs


That is the target I use too. For me and all people that I know, it feels like a lot of proteins though. I'm not sure most people even reach 1.5, probably the RDA of 0.8 is what is commonly achieved when not counting, and I'm even wondering how much of that would be from gluten actually.

I guess when you said "huge amounts" you meant McDonald-ish levels of 3-4 g/kg?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:14 am 
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mark74 wrote:
stuward wrote:
1 g/lb LBM is the most anyone needs


That is the target I use too. For me and all people that I know, it feels like a lot of proteins though. I'm not sure most people even reach 1.5, probably the RDA of 0.8 is what is commonly achieved when not counting, and I'm even wondering how much of that would be from gluten actually.

I guess when you said "huge amounts" you meant McDonald-ish levels of 3-4 g/kg?


Exactly. I know many bodybuilders experiment with larger amounts and I have no problem with that. My point was that getting enough protein doesn't have to be expensive if you exercise portion control. Vegetables need to make up the bulk of the diet and fats can provide the energy.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:59 am 
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The low fat thing is definitely something i did not know about...

But in a general reply to a bunch of the posts around here, I never really eat the dark meat of chicken anyway, and I have to take the skin off because idk how to roast things... lol. Reading Don's blog I found some interesting things. Some also were similar to what you sad stu, and backed with acticles as well. As far as the protein goes, everything I've researched more or less is around what you reccomended. 3 eggs, 1.5 lbs meat/fish, and 3 glasses of milk seemed daunting at first, but when you think about spacing it out over an entire day it's really not bad at all, not to mention the added support of proteins from fruits and veggies.

Also had a friend who was trainging for our school's "greek god" last october who advocated high, high amounts of proteins. FYI Greek God is somewhat of a bodybuilding event, there are a bunch of factors but the posedown i beleive was about 15-20% of the final score. Anyway for months leading up to the competition he ate about 1.5-2 g/lb of his entire body weight. Albeit he already had a very low BF%, and by the time of the competition he had an extremely ridiculously low BF%, but still. It seemed insane, he'd tell me what he'd ate for the day and I was wondering how he afforded it all lol (btw he carb cycled, seen some posts on the forum about it).
With that being said, he was unhuman. Gym about 2 times/day, lifted crazy amounts, etc etc. Claims he never did roids either, which is cool. Anyway there's my anecdote....


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:06 am 
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I eat 200-250g of protein a day, and I weigh 185lbs. That's generally a shake, 2 pints of milk, 3-6 eggs and a whole lot o' meat. It isn't that expensive really, 400g of mince (ground beef) costs [1 million dollars] and has 80g of protein in it.

My first meal of the day including shake comes to about 100g of protein. It's quite easy to get your protein in if you're savvy with your shopping.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:35 am 
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getting protein in is easy, it;s the geting in protein within a calorie restrcted diet that gets tougher

some combos I like:
brocoli (big bag) walnuts (big bag) pineapple (canned) and chicken (canned) lemon juice and olive oil
All from WholeSale CLUB,

or similarly,

spinach, salmon (can), olive oil + red wine vinagar + mustard, walnuts

roasting large quantites of vegggies
slow cooker is your friend
6 lbs of Chuk Roast, throw in carrots and onion

If you''ree like me and can eat the same thing for several days, buying in bulk, it will stay good long enough

Reminds me, romaine lettuce has a very long life in the fridge.

Cabot Full Fat Greek Yogurt with any and all berries, or over yuor potato

I love it all.
Too bad I also like cereal, and pecan pie.

almost forgot, new favorite, spinach and scrambled eggs, + bleu cheese! - ETA: cooked in virgin coconut oil


Last edited by Oscar_Actuary on Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:53 pm 
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Oscar_Actuary wrote:
getting protein in is easy, it;s the geting in protein within a calorie restrcted diet that gets tougher


Well, some of the things you listed really have plenty of fat. On a strictly low-carb diet (some would call it zero-carb), the importance of controlling fat intake becomes minor. I've eaten for a long time such a diet, it was zero as far as I'm concerned because I don't really bother myself with counting calories and carbs from true vegetables (I only count e.g. the oil I'm adding or the meat/fish I'm mixing in salads) - but I do count them for legumes, potatoes etc. It's really hard to eat a significant amount of calories from vegetables unless they're cooked in some fancy way, e.g. I love meat filled bell peppers, but I only prepare them seldomly.

ATM I'm deliberately eating carbs on my training days, so to keep costs and fat under control my mainstay of choice is frozen fish (e.g. pollock) and as an alternative chicken breast. I should really eat more more of the latter but I dislike breast unless it's been roasted or marinaded, and I've been lazy about doing marinades these last 6 months.

On a second thought, free roaming roasted chickens are selling for 3.90 € this week, maybe I should go back, buy a few and freeze em for good!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:47 pm 
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mark74 wrote:
Oscar_Actuary wrote:
getting protein in is easy, it;s the geting in protein within a calorie restrcted diet that gets tougher


Well, some of the things you listed really have plenty of fat.


While I was not intending to have listed a supporting list to my initial statement, yes, there is some fat there.
Caned chicken and canned salmon are low fat, oil and nuts, higher fat.
Belive me though, if I stuck to those items, I'd weigh much less.

OTOH, the cereal is low fat, but I can eat large (read high calorie) quantities and fell hungry right afterwards


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:50 pm 
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there's not enough love for minced beef in your list Oscar, it's so cheap and you can do so much with it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:11 pm 
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it's getting expensive in States
More than chicken and up there with Chuck Roast.

I do like it. Quite versatile. Oddly, I always seem to overcook or undersook, much better with steaks. But at least its forgiving, stays juicy.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:07 pm 
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Oscar_Actuary wrote:
Belive me though, if I stuck to those items, I'd weigh much less.


LOL, but we have to cheat Oscar otherwise we would lose that little sanity that we have left. Hope that ankle is getting better.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:58 pm 
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mark74 wrote:
Oscar_Actuary wrote:
. Hope that ankle is getting better.


Hey thanks for asking!
I am practically, convinced I'll have to settle for a chronic stiffness post squats, but the acute pain has basically left. I try to walk on it regularly after squat day and be careful going downstairs in the morning. Odd, and sudden, for something that appears to possibly be a long term albeit low intesity issue. In couple of days I"m doing high volume squatting, probably testing the situation even more.

On another note, the left elbow-itis has finally goten noticeably better.
***************

At my weight, really need to stop cheating all together at least until I can show some momentum to the downside.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:32 pm 
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stuward wrote:
However, there is no proven limit in how much protein can be consumed in one meal. The rate of protein digestion is well known but it appears that protein digestion can go on for quite some time. It appears that you can go up to 60 hours without eating at all before your body starts consuming muscle. The 30g/meal number that is often quoted is a marketing gimmick to sell protein powder and expensive chocolate bars. And it's extra calories that turn to fat, not just protein.


Layne Norton, BS Biochemistry, PhD candidate, 2009 wrote:
To find the optimal level of protein intake at a meal we must determine what the optimal level of protein at a meal for stimulating muscle protein synthesis is. It appears that maximizing skeletal muscle protein synthesis requires approximately ~15g of essential amino acids. It has been postulated that the amino acid leucine is responsible for the stimulatory effect of dietary protein on protein synthesis and 15g of essential amino acids would contain 3.2g of leucine. Thus, in order to determine how much protein from a specific source is required to elicit the maximal response it may be useful to also calculate how much leucine is contained in the source. One could then determine how much of the source must be consumed in order to reach the leucine threshold. For example, whey protein is approximately 12% leucine; therefore, about 27g of whey protein would need to be consumed to reach the threshold for maximal anabolism, whereas a source like chicken, which has a protein content of about 7.5% leucine would require 43g of protein to reach the leucine threshold required for maximal stimulation.

[...]

Now there is the issue of meal frequency and time between meals. Assuming we maximize protein synthesis by achieving the required leucine/protein threshold, how long does the effect last? Several studies have shown that the duration of protein synthesis in response to an oral leucine dose or an essential amino acid infusion is approximately two hours long.


It's very possible that I got this paper from you, Stu...
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/protein_size_&_frequency.pdf


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:59 pm 
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bam wrote:
Layne Norton, BS Biochemistry, PhD candidate, 2009 wrote:
It has been postulated that the amino acid leucine is responsible for the stimulatory effect of dietary protein on protein synthesis and 15g of essential amino acids would contain 3.2g of leucine.

It's interesting that based on "...has been postulated..." he constructs the rest of his reasoning.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:40 am 
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Jungledoc wrote:
bam wrote:
Layne Norton, BS Biochemistry, PhD candidate, 2009 wrote:
It has been postulated that the amino acid leucine is responsible for the stimulatory effect of dietary protein on protein synthesis and 15g of essential amino acids would contain 3.2g of leucine.

It's interesting that based on "...has been postulated..." he constructs the rest of his reasoning.


I suppose I should have left in the references. For that quote he references this (his own article)...

Quote:
3. Norton LE, Layman DK. Leucine regulates translation initiation of protein synthesis in
skeletal muscle after exercise. J Nutr. 2006 Feb;136(2):533S-537S


The whole paper is listed here....
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/2/533S.full
I can't even begin to make heads or tails of it....


Last edited by bam on Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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