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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:00 pm 
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Whats up fellas. I've been lifting for about a year and a half and have never tried deadlifts. Just the thought of deadlifts makes me cringe. I dont have back problems but once in while ill get a bit of pain after doing straight leg deadlifts or goodmornings. Anyway, Ive decided to throw it in my workout after hearing that they are great for developing size. My only problem is that I dont know what day to put them in. Seems like they target back and legs. Which is the primary?
BTW love this website. Ive used this site as a reference since I started working out. I lost 50 pounds in about 10 months and from about 20% body fat to 8% body fat.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:46 pm 
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I'd put them on the leg day. Doing heavy squats on the leg day and then doing heavy deadlifts on the back day would wear me out! I'll do one or the other heavy once a week but not both.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:28 pm 
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rec_mike wrote:
Whats up fellas. I've been lifting for about a year and a half and have never tried deadlifts. Just the thought of deadlifts makes me cringe. I dont have back problems but once in while ill get a bit of pain after doing straight leg deadlifts or goodmornings. Anyway, Ive decided to throw it in my workout after hearing that they are great for developing size. My only problem is that I dont know what day to put them in. Seems like they target back and legs. Which is the primary?


Deads work the quads, hamstrings, glutes and lower back (Erector Spinae) directly, and the upper back isometrically. Like Drew said, it's more of a leg exercise than an upper back exercise

rec_mike wrote:
BTW love this website. Ive used this site as a reference since I started working out. I lost 50 pounds in about 10 months and from about 20% body fat to 8% body fat.


Way to go! Keep up the good work. Losing 50 pounds in 10 months is outstanding!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:24 pm 
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I have to applaud you as has Stephen. Good work. Now, to deads and dquats. It will definately depend on the intensity.Back squats done heavy, with light DL's, or better yet, powercleans or powersnatches from the floor work nicely on the same day, and in turn, heavy deads with some light leg work works well. It's true that squats and pulling off the floor work basically the same muscles, however, squats are quad dominant, while Deads and pulls are hip/ham dominant. I wouldn't worry about it, as long as you are doing one of them. As far as to back day, leg day, I can't answer that one. I don't like breaking up workouts into bodyparts. I break them up into functions, or lifts. The body works as one piece, so why train bodyparts? If you are into bodybuilding , then yes, I can see it, if you are into general fitness, I can't see it at all.
Tim


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:16 pm 
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Thanks for the help guys. Hey TimD, care to elaborate more on your opinion on working out according to function or lifts. Ive always done split workouts and had great results. Is there something im missing out on?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:12 am 
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Well, no, I don't think you're missing anything. A lot of people use splits by bodypart, and for a bodybuilding type of result, i.e. a collection of nice looking, strong bodyparts, it's just fine. I'm getting on in years (57), and my main goals are fitness rather than having a collection of bodyparts, and seeing as the body works as one piece, I focus in on movements that require the whole body, i.e. clean and pushpress, snatches, dips, chins, etc. As to which one is better, well, it depends on your goalsIf you are bodybuilding oriented,splits are probably the best. For sports or general fitness, I'd go with my way of thinking.
Tim


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:50 am 
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Mike, another example of going by movement would be similar to a powerlifters approach, ie, a squat day and/or assitance, and day devoted to DL and / or assistance, and a bench/ assistance day. Other examples might be like OL training, a day of snatches and assistance, clean and assistance, and overhead work and pulls. Lots of different ways to split it up via movements. Another way that could apply to bodybuilding or powerlifting would be a classic push/pull format. That's what I mean by planning around movements rather than bodyparts.
Tim


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:41 am 
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Alwyn Cosgrove recommends training movements and the whole body rather than body parts. He's always a good read if you want more information.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:55 am 
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I didn't know he had a site, tks for the link. I've been reading him for some time now in Men's fitness. He writes some good general overall outines, and his philosophy fit's mine quite well. I don't care that much about aesthetics at my age, I just want to stay fit and strong, and somewhat lean.
Tim


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:15 am 
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Functions and lifts can work in bodybuilding. At least as far as a way to split things up that makes sense. Like say you want a 3 day split. You can do legs on one day, and abs and lower back go well with that because they are used in compound leg exercises. Then you do chest on another day and back on another. Obviously triceps and front delts work with the chest so you pair those up. Rear delts and biceps work with back, so they go on that day. Then where to put lateral delts and upper traps? Well do you want to do shoulder press after chest, and rear delt rows after back, or do you prefer just doing front raises after chest and then bent over laterals after back.

If you like to split your upper body up so it is a hard day/easy day kind of thing, you can do the Charles Poliquin split. You do Chest and back in one day which is a real bitch. Then do shoulders and arms the next day. So it is like the main lifts Monday, the assistance stuff Tuedays and then legs later in the week.

Then say you want a 4 day. You can devide lower body by putting quad related exercises and calf work one day. Then do hamstring stuff and abs on another day. So then it is a bench, squat, row, deadlift. Do a couple variations of each and some assistance work.
Or if you want to go crazy high volume, do upper body assistance work on a 5th day (IE shoulders and arms).

I like that a lot better then the seemingly random combinations some bodybuilders come up with. With lots of overlap, where some things get worked more then others.

The Alwyn Cosgrove stuff can be good, but you have to set it up so you train every other day. I like to change the set ratios, so there is less bicep, tricep, front and rear delt stuff, since they got worked with chest and back.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:20 am 
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Hey Drew, I just read his rant on "20 things that make me shake my head" from the articles section. Still laughing. Tks again for the link.
Tim


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:02 pm 
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Thats alot of useful information. Appreciate it guys.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:27 pm 
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TimD wrote:
Hey Drew, I just read his rant on "20 things that make me shake my head" from the articles section. Still laughing. Tks again for the link.
Tim


He definitely has a fun sense of humor. :)


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