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 Post subject: dynamic effort day
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:56 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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does anybody use these? I was thinking about having my second upper body day as a DE day for benching.

Anyone got any tips/techniques or whatever about doing this?


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 Post subject: Re: dynamic effort day
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:37 pm 
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ProperKnob.
Has a journal


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 Post subject: Re: dynamic effort day
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:55 pm 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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i was hoping for a more stimulating discourse than just checking out Phil's log to be honest


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 Post subject: Re: dynamic effort day
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:48 pm 
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I tried.


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 Post subject: Re: dynamic effort day
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:16 pm 
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Phil's journal is a great study, I finally "got" what some of the max effort stuff was by reading it.


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 Post subject: Re: dynamic effort day
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:34 pm 
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Tate's article over at Tnation perhaps, because it's made me look into trying it, and I'd love to hear more as well, I'm looking to use this (and the ME stuff too) to add some extra to my squat. I am definitely lacking on the speed of my lifts, hopefully this will up my lower work.


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 Post subject: Re: dynamic effort day
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:09 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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it just seems a bit too easy to be worthwhile, 8 sets of 3 at 50%? Doesn't sound like it would have much benefit

I suppose it's just a case of trying it and seeing if it works


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 Post subject: Re: dynamic effort day
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:12 am 
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Well its not about intensity but speed. In that set of 3 you are supposed to get each one faster than the previous. Never having done it I don't know, but they say it's a hell of a lot harder than it sounds and after 8 sets you're pretty seriously smoked.


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 Post subject: Re: dynamic effort day
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:00 pm 
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I read an article recently, can't remember where, but it said that dynamic effort days served as a form rehersal. It greases the groove for your heavy days. The benefits came as much from that aspect as from the actual speed component.

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 Post subject: Re: dynamic effort day
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:48 pm 
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Louie Simmons along w/ Dave Tate use the ME day for speed, and also as form rehearsal , as STU stated. The idea is on the bench, you do 8 or so sets of 3 reps, with varying grips each set, going from slightly wider than a competition width and in from a competition. Also, sets are spaced out at about 45 Secs. Squats are done at about 10X2. Explosive power, and to a lesser extent, strength endurance are involved. Wait for Kenny to chime in, I think he can explain it much better than I can, plus, he uses them pretty regularly
Tim


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 Post subject: Re: dynamic effort day
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:40 pm 
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if nothing else his explanation will look more impressive


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 Post subject: Re: dynamic effort day
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:58 pm 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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that's interesting about the grip thing, I'd never heard of that before. I remember reading somewhere, think it was a Thibaudeau (sp?) thing on t-nation where he said that varying your grip a little bit for every set of bench can help to stop you getting all the pattern overuse injuries that benching can cause.

Eric Cressey's always going on about DE days too, and so's DeFranco now that I think about it. There must be something to it


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 Post subject: Re: dynamic effort day
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:15 am 
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I'm a big fan of it. I had a DE day a long with an ME day for several months and will definitely go back to it.

Kenny has explained the benefits of training speed a few times and explains it much better than me so i'll let him chime in on that side if he sees this.

From a more practical stand point, people just don't know how to "explode" with a weight. Sure, once you explain, they know what it means to explode/lift fast but they normally still can't do it. It's really interesting. Most of the time when I explain it, i'll need to get on the bench my self a few times and blast it off my chest to show them how fast it should be. The issue is, when you've previously believed "conventional wisdom", it becomes instinctively wrong to lift that fast. We are always taught to lift slow until we begin to know better.

In terms of it being "easy" - if benching is ever easy, you're probably not setting up properly. The bar a lone should be enough to get your heart rate up and a sweat going, if you're getting as tight as you're capable of, which you should. It shouldn't feel nice and it shouldn't feel comfortable. As I find myself saying quite a lot these days - you're lifting heavy sh*t, not taking a warm bath, you're not supposed to be comfortable!

You need to approach every set almost like it's a PB. It's easy to get lazy with this because it's hard work even setting up for a PB and getting your head right for it. This is how you need to approach your speed work. You blast the weight off your chest like your life depends on it. I tell people to "throw the bar through the ceiling". You should hear the the discs clink at the top of the rep.

A good tip I picked up is that each rep should be over before you can finish saying "one thousand one". It's not very scientific but it's a good general guideline, and i'll say this to myself when people are doing a speed set, and my training partner(s) will do the same with me. When the bar speed becomes slow, it's no longer speed work.

Speed work will also call you out on form. If your loose anywhere in your body, you'll be all over the place. It's a great chance to hone your technique and also expose your biggest flaws.

A good way to start this, in terms of progression and just getting to know speed work, is to start with 50% of your max and add 5% (whatever) every week for 4 weeks. In theory, 4 weeks later you should be lifting 70% of your max with a similar bar speed as you were lifting 50% of your max. This is where the magic happens, really. It's just tough to quantify. It becomes very instinctive. When you are new to it, the 5% jumps actually work as a lot of the initial improvement come from gaining the ability to "explode" optimally and 70% really won't look much different from 50% at the end of the cycle. As time goes on I would recommend smaller jumps.

This will also allow you to get very in tune with bar speed and you'll get a feel for how you will perform on heavier days just by the bar speed of the warm up sets. It helps you get to know yourself, really.

Also - If you don't have a speed day, your warm up sets should be treated like speed work.

Also, according to some of their articles, at Westside they will work up to a heavy single AFTER the speed sets, every third workout although i'm sure it varies. I know Cressey tends to work in some heavy stuff after the speed work every 2nd or 3rd week or so.

If you're doing 8-10 sets at ~50%, set 2-5 will most likely show the fastest reps (atleast, in my experience, plus it makes sense). Your aiming to get them as fast as possible. Short rest, too. Generally, after about 6 sets, you will feel (and see) a noticeable decline in bar speed. This is actually what you're aiming for - to fatigue those fast twitch muscle fibres. It's not like getting a pump or burn or failing mid-grind. When the bar speed slows, you've done the job. This is where you see different coaches "principles" all tie in together i.e. westside, thibs, waterbury, etc.

KPj

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 Post subject: Re: dynamic effort day
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:56 am 
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I've been doing volume work on the "opposite" upper day in my 5/3/1. In other words, on bench day, I do volume press, and on press day I do volume bench. Lately for bench I've been doing 5x6 or 5x8 on that day. I could use that time for speed work, say 8x3, and do 50% in the deload, "week" 4, then do 55, 60 and 65% in each of the next 3 weeks, then 50% of the current training max that 4th week.

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 Post subject: Re: dynamic effort day
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:57 am 
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Peter wrote about this on his blog today. he has a link to the article I referred to in my post.

http://strength-basics.blogspot.com/201 ... nique.html

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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