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 Post subject: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:54 pm 
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I won't bore you with a lengthy post. but I wanted to know if anyone had any insight on intermittent fasting.
http://www.precisionnutrition.com/intermittent-fasting
Precision Nutrition seems to be making a push towards becoming a widely accepted fitness nutrition programming and certification. I learned about it through my PT certification (N.E.S.T.A.). And I wanted to know what any experienced nutrition gurus thought about it.
The basics of intermittent fasting (according to their research) shows that periods of fasting either daily (8-10 hours of food followed by 14-16hrs fasting) or intermittently for whole days (24hr fast, no more than once a week) helps aid fat loss if accompanied by healthy food consumption and exercise. I had heard a good amount of research saying the opposite of this (small, frequent, nutrient dense meals 3-6x daily) was the best for metabolic increase. Just looking for thoughts and opinions on this.
Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:09 pm 
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"nutrient dense" is a red herring, all healthy styles of eating are nutrient dense so you can keep that out of it. It's not the opposite of IF.

Although widely repeated, there is no proof that there is any advantage to small frequent meals if you're trying to reduce calories. In fact, most people eat more that way than if they minimize the number of meals. Research usually lags the experience of people who try new things so there is little research on IF that I'm aware of. However, the anecdotal evidence suggests that you can reduce fat while maintaining or even building muscle through IF. PN is not a pioneer in the subject. Go to "The Warrior Diet" for an earlier version. Leangains, Eat, Stop, Eat and PN all built upon that book. Art Devaney was an early adopter as well but he's just recently published his program. I haven't read it yet.

I should also point out that I consider John Berardi to be one of the leading experts on athletic nutrition and if he endorses an approach to nutrition, it would take a lot of convincing for me to dispute him.

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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:17 pm 
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I've done it for a few months and have a mixed opinion of it.

Things I've noticed:

-initial weight loss was awesome, went down two notches on my belt pretty much overnight, all the while getting heavier so I was happy as hell about that. However, this plateaued pretty quickly and I have not gotten any leaner (although I should point out I was already 6 pack lean before I started so a heavier dude might not plateau as fast).

-training fasted was not as much of an issue as I thought it would be. In fact, I actually prefer it, and will always train in the morning, fasted, with 10g of BCAAs when my schedule allows.

-the schedule breaks down on days you can't train in the mornings. If you're training in the evening then I think a Warrior Diet style approach is better (where you are allowed to eat small, carb-less meals during the day, saving your big, carby meal for post workout). Leangains has an approach where you eat a couple of small meals during the day which is pretty much the same idea as the Warrior Diet.

the 2 main, take-home points I learned from IF is that carb-backloading is the ultimate way to eat. Keep your during the day meals small and low carb, and feast in the evening. The second main point is that the idea you have to eat 6 meals a day, eating ever 2-3 hours is a pile of BS

hope that helps


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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:11 pm 
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stuward wrote:
"nutrient dense" is a red herring, all healthy styles of eating are nutrient dense so you can keep that out of it. It's not the opposite of IF.

Although widely repeated, there is no proof that there is any advantage to small frequent meals if you're trying to reduce calories. In fact, most people eat more that way than if they minimize the number of meals. Research usually lags the experience of people who try new things so there is little research on IF that I'm aware of. However, the anecdotal evidence suggests that you can reduce fat while maintaining or even building muscle through IF. PN is not a pioneer in the subject. Go to "The Warrior Diet" for an earlier version. Leangains, Eat, Stop, Eat and PN all built upon that book. Art Devaney was an early adopter as well but he's just recently published his program. I haven't read it yet.

I should also point out that I consider John Berardi to be one of the leading experts on athletic nutrition and if he endorses an approach to nutrition, it would take a lot of convincing for me to dispute him.


I wasn't comparing the nutrient density of the small meals verses the IF, I was referring to eating small calculated meals as opposed to the American habit of grazing. Basically eating your daily amount of calories split up into regular meals to keep the metabolism running constantly. I brought this up because of all of the hype over "not skipping meals or breakfast". I've heard that Berardi is an expert, I just haven't heard about IF as an acceptable method before today, and was just curious. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:17 pm 
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robertscott wrote:
I've done it for a few months and have a mixed opinion of it.
-initial weight loss was awesome, went down two notches on my belt pretty much overnight, all the while getting heavier so I was happy as hell about that. However, this plateaued pretty quickly and I have not gotten any leaner (although I should point out I was already 6 pack lean before I started so a heavier dude might not plateau as fast).

Just to clarify, you cut morning intake and then started with lean meals in the late morning/early afternoon.

Quote:
the 2 main, take-home points I learned from IF is that carb-backloading is the ultimate way to eat. Keep your during the day meals small and low carb, and feast in the evening. The second main point is that the idea you have to eat 6 meals a day, eating ever 2-3 hours is a pile of BS.


This is wild, all of the mainstream crap said lower carbs at night before bedtime, small balanced meals and never ever skip breakfast. :withstupid: no wonder most Americans are fat.


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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:27 pm 
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Look, I'm not sure that's why most Americans are fat, and they are. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with low carbs early, then back load, or take them (C) in the morning when they can best be absorbed, then low carb it. I'm convinced both will work, and have done it. I think the problem is with all the processed crap, GMO's, and add to that the amounts most of them eat. When I was a kid in the 50's, we might get an icecream cone once or twice a week, and they were small. Same with the local burgers. But we got them once in a blue moon. My mother grew up in the depression, 1930's, and we did almost everthing off the trees in the yard, or her garden, or at the local butcher, and did all the rest from scratch. Doesn't happen anymore. Iwas watching the local news tonight, watching some people complaining how much the food cost, and they couldn't afford it, and they were all fat. Wouldn;t have seen that 40 years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:22 am 
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Absolutely Tim. Remember the 10 oz pop bottle? Remember milk straight from the farmer with the cream floating on the top? I place the blame squarely on out elected representatives. They caused this problem. Subsidies for junk food ingredients, low fat dietary guidelines, unrestricted advertising of junk food, reduction of school gym programs, and the list goes on.

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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:55 am 
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What about all the flour and lard filled pies that those southern mamma's were baking, back then? Wel, I guess the slices were more reasonable, and those eating it likely worked harder/chores played outside, during the days as well. But, I mean, there was plenty of unhealthy foods being baked and fried in 1950s.


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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:09 am 
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Oscar_Actuary wrote:
What about all the flour and lard filled pies that those southern mamma's were baking, back then? Wel, I guess the slices were more reasonable, and those eating it likely worked harder/chores played outside, during the days as well. But, I mean, there was plenty of unhealthy foods being baked and fried in 1950s.


Obesity wasn't invented in the 70's, it was just perfected then and improved upon every since. Around here, the big treat is fish and chips. People live off the stuff and many have for years. But as you say, most people don't live off the land or on the water anymore.

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:19 am 
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Serving sizes have become absolutely absurd and our hunger levels adapt right too it. If you have some time, I watched this video from University of California a few months ago, http://uctv.tv/search-details.aspx?showID=16717. They talk about not only how some of this stuff is bad for you but why. A good lecture, but an hour and half so its no quick sit. I guess the original McDonald's value meal was a cheeseburger, a small fry, and a kiddie coke (8-10z). Here's the best part, people used to eat that and....wait for it......be full, done, and satisfied. GMO's, processed foods, refined foods, and inactivity are certainly the root cause to American Obesity, but epic over consumption of anything becomes bad.


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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:31 am 
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There can be so many causes depending on how you look at it. I think if it can be summed up, it would simply be, "attitude".

As Dan John said in one of his recent articles - eat like an adult! Adults eat like children. They know better, they just refuse to accept it. We generally know what food is "good" and what isn't, in terms of quality. Maybe not to the extent of getting muscular and lean, but we do to the extent of not being obese. I don't think it's so much a case of people "can't" lose weight, I just think they "won't".

Then you have activity. We are a lazy society now. We don't move or do anything physical. This is evident with all the "athletes" that park in the disabled parking spaces outside my gym, to save them walking an extra 20 feet - and these are the "active" people! Or the amount of times i've seen people sit in their car eating Burger King or KFC, then DRIVE to the bin, open the window, throw it away, god forbid they had to get out of the car and walk 10 feet or so to the bin.

Think about it - When did WALKING become classed as "exercise" ???

I see a lot of 16-20 year old in the gym and try and get them started. A lot of the time their parents have bought the membership out of concern. A lot of them actually move worse than the majority of 60+ people I have seen who have never set foot in a gym.

When I was a boy I used to jog up to my friends farm, about a mile away, not even thinking of it as "going for a jog". It was just "how i got there". Now, if a kids friend stays a mile or 2 away, they get driven. We would climb trees, mess around on bikes, play football (soccer), build "dens" using hay bales, wrestle, etc, then I would run or cycle back. This was normal in my village when I was younger. We didn't care about a little rain and if it was cold we would wear extra clothes. If it snowed we would be out messing around in the snow. We were always moving. When we went out as a family we go to castles and parks and have picnics, mess around on cold windy rainy beaches (but not care about the cold, wind, or rain), go out on bikes, etc.

Now it's Xbox's and PS3's. Young strapping males can barely do a push up and a pull up is out of the question. My 5 year old nephew got an Ipad 2 for his birthday and a lot of the time refuses to play outside with us because it's "too cold". Then you have crap food blatantly marketed at kids, too i.e. Ronald McDonald.

This rant has made me feel old lol i'll stop now.

KPj

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:19 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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KPj wrote:
Think about it - When did WALKING become classed as "exercise" ???


I've nothing really to add to the obesity discussion as I agree with everything Stu, Tim and KPj have said, but I have to add a little bit to this...

Walking is not exercise! I hate that. People say "I walk loads" as if that excuses all the other unhealthy stuff they do all day every day. I can't stand it!

Now before some smart ass says "Well what about the infirm, hyper-obese or elderly? Walking is the only exercise they can do." Well fine, you got me there. Some people are physically incapable of anything more intense than a walk and for those people then it is totally justified. But if you do NOT fit into one of those categories then get your fat ass in a gym and pick up a barbell.

I mean you might as well say "I don't do any exercise but I blink loads!"


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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:40 am 
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KPj wrote:
.... My 5 year old nephew got an Ipad 2 for his birthday ...


I do all my Christmas shopping at Iron Dog Fitness. I can just imagine my daughters explaining to their friends what a kettlebell is.

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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