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 Post subject: Re: BD's discussionaire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:26 pm 
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Routine:

Whatever it is you are doing, it sucks. That is because it lacks the following
1) volume
2) intensity
3) frequency

You don't need all 3 at your stage, but you have to have at least 1 at this stage to make progress. Can you make your routine work? Yup. Look, we had a long thread about whether what routine you do matters or not. I don't think the actual routine does, if you are getting the principles right.

Some major principles:
1) Progression - Always, and I mean always be getting better at something. Adding reps, adding sets, adding weight, make your form better, increase TUT, anything
2) Consistency - This takes years, and is a never ending journey. Don't take months off at a time and expect to get anywhere
3) Recover to lift, don't lift to recover - You need adequate food and rest in order to push your self, increase your work capacity and get better at all things awesome. Add in more food and an extra nap before you do one less set Wednesday because you are worried about hitting your numbers on Friday. You are 24 years old, not 42 or 52. Take advantage of that fact.
4) Challenge yourself - People forget this one all the time. You should sweat, you should "hurt", grunt, feel sore, spit a little. You should smell bad when you are done, have callouses on your hands. Smell the blood in the water dude, and go after it.


Now any routine, even if it is the most perfect set up on earth, won't do a damn thing if you don't eat. BUT if you eat without putting the work in at the gym, you will just get fat.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8077&hilit=sample+way

the above is the routine Timd was talking about. It should be right up your alley. It has compound and isolation, a good amount of room for variety and shouldn't leave you helpless like some of the stuff you are doing now.

Read it, if you like it, I'm sure you will have questions, feel free to ask. I would tell you to K.I.S.S., but we'll get to that later.

(Notice this post is significantly shorter than the diet post, lol)


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 Post subject: Re: BD's discussionaire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:39 pm 
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Ausbris wrote:
Leaving these imbalances is only going to result in...imbalance!

If your left arm falls two reps short of the right arm, try resting and then make up the reps in an additional set.

Good luck with your goals!


Agree with the concern, disagree with the method.

I would (and do) just do your weaker side first, and only match the reps of your weaker side with your stronger side.

They will catch up eventually.


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 Post subject: Re: BD's discussionaire
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:32 am 
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Erick, you get it said.

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 Post subject: Re: BD's discussionaire
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:34 pm 
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You got hurt because you don't eat enough. I promise.
Interesting theory, and loved the post! It definitely gave me some great ideas to work with. Currently, I'm working getting a good diet regime down so I can make sure I'm not slacking. I'll post it once I've got a basic plan down.

Boils down to Lift heavy, rest, eat, eat some more, rest some more, sleep, repeat.
Simplicity at its finest? =)

Add in more food and an extra nap before you do one less set Wednesday because you are worried about hitting your numbers on Friday.
I'll definitely keep this tidbit in mind!

Challenge yourself - People forget this one all the time. You should sweat, you should "hurt", grunt, feel sore, spit a little. You should smell bad when you are done, have callouses on your hands. Smell the blood in the water dude, and go after it.
Love it.

I would (and do) just do your weaker side first, and only match the reps of your weaker side with your stronger side.
Another great idea!


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8077&hilit=sample+way
So the basic outline is this?:
Lift
Lift
Rest
Lift
Lift
Rest

Also, are DB front squats appropriate instead of BB?

With previous injuries, would it be better to work on doing high volume low intensity sets instead of a 5x2 routine at the moment?

But I definitely do like the way it looks!


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 Post subject: Re: BD's discussionaire
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:54 pm 
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13lind Dog wrote:
...With previous injuries, would it be better to work on doing high volume low intensity sets instead of a 5x2 routine at the moment?
...


The physio therapy approach of low intensity, high volume may work while you have an acute injury but you need to get strong, which means progressing to heavier weights eventually. Sort out why you got injured, do appropriate corrective exercises and then start putting the weight up.

From your earlier post you said "Sharp knee pain...it started when I was pushing too hard with one-legged squat assists. And elbow and shoulder pain from doing too many pull-ups/chin-ups it seemed. And shin splints with running."

The squat assists may have been from going too heavy but it sounds like your problem is too much volume with incorrect form or imbalances, but there's really not enough information here to determine the cause or the remedy.

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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 Post subject: Re: BD's discussionaire
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:04 pm 
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13lind Dog wrote:
Currently, I'm working getting a good diet regime down so I can make sure I'm not slacking. I'll post it once I've got a basic plan down.


This done yet?

Your plan is simple. EAT A LOT OF FOOD. Trust me, at this point I'm certain you are being too picky about food source. You are severely under weight. What you're eating needs to come secondary to the amount you are eating. Pick calorie dense food that isn't all sugar and processed BS and eat it, a lot fo it.

Quote:

Also, are DB front squats appropriate instead of BB?


No. You will be limited way way way too much by what you can hold up with your hands. Your mind will cheat your body out of gains.

These are going to be uncomfortable for you as I assume you are kinda boney in the shoulder pad area. But you need to dig that bar into your collar bone, neck and grind out some reps.

Quote:
With previous injuries, would it be better to work on doing high volume low intensity sets instead of a 5x2 routine at the moment?


I wouldn't do either, and I'm not sure where you are getting 5x2 from. You can either ramp up to a top set of 2, or ramp up to a 6 rep max set. I recommend you stick in the 5-8 rep range for now.

For example: BB deadlifts
135x6
225x5
285x5
315x5
365x3
405x8

you shoudln't need more volume than that at this point.

If you wanted to go heavier
135x6
225x5
315x3
365x2
405x2
455x2 or 3
465x1 or 2

Whatever. Play around with ramping until you find a way that works for you. There are no set %'s jump that are better than any other. You need to find what works for you and do it.

Stop thinking in terms of straight sets. I hate that idea, outside of specific purposes for people that KNOW what they are doing. There is no need for a newb to NOT ramp and do 6,000 reps of the same weight. 5x5 straight sets is dumb, there I said it. Boarderline moronic. I don't care what guru said to do it. Wasting the energy to lift the same weight 25 times over 5 sets is not better than ramping up to your TRUE 5RM. It isn't.


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 Post subject: Re: BD's discussionaire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:10 am 
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fwiw, I think your last two sessions look more "reasonable" for someone looking to get stronger
Looking forward to seeing if you balance out the pushing with extra pulling

my 0.01


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 Post subject: Re: BD's discussionaire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:02 pm 
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This done yet?
What I got so far...:

Breakfast
1 cup oatmeal
Large glass of milk
Banana

Snack
Bagel w/ cream cheese
Banana

Lunch
Peanut Butter and Honey Sandwich
Cup of Yogurt
Banana

Supper
4 egg white omelet
Large glass of milk
Banana


Still need to add veggies in there, but right now just trying to get the main bulk and calories down pat. Once I start getting used to eating a lot in the morning, I'm going to try to add the omelet to my breakfast in addition to, and then rotate chicken, beef, fish for supper.



No. You will be limited way way way too much by what you can hold up with your hands. Your mind will cheat your body out of gains.

Alright. I'll check around and get my hands on a Barbell ASAP.

Whatever. Play around with ramping until you find a way that works for you. There are no set %'s jump that are better than any other. You need to find what works for you and do it.

Ahh I guess there are different ways to ramp: keeping the same rep, decreasing reps all the way, decreasing reps then upping them on the work set. Good to know!

Also, the workout regime you linked to, is it supposed to be ABXABX or ABXABXX?

fwiw, I think your last two sessions look more "reasonable" for someone looking to get stronger
Looking forward to seeing if you balance out the pushing with extra pulling

Hitting up the pulling tonight! =)


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 Post subject: Re: BD's discussionaire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:14 pm 
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13lind Dog wrote:
This done yet?
What I got so far...:

Breakfast
1 cup oatmeal
Large glass of milk
Banana

Snack
Bagel w/ cream cheese
Banana

Lunch
Peanut Butter and Honey Sandwich
Cup of Yogurt
Banana

Supper
4 egg white omelet
Large glass of milk
Banana


Still need to add veggies in there, but right now just trying to get the main bulk and calories down pat. Once I start getting used to eating a lot in the morning, I'm going to try to add the omelet to my breakfast in addition to, and then rotate chicken, beef, fish for supper.



Where's the Beef?

Eat the whole Egg!
Eat more protein!

Get real friendly with Wholesale Club of your choice. Buy in BULK. Cans of tuna/salmon/chicken. Lbs of Frozen chicken breasts, Whole Chickens. Get a SlowCooker. Ground Beeef buy the truckload. Chuck Roast + Carrots + Potatos makes delicious meals.
Pick up a bag of Whey
Eat Animals!

And yes, eat your veggies. Spinach, Sweet Potatos, Broccoli, any of them.
Throw in some Berries, heck, you should splurge on all fruits and vegetables, but leave room to get your protein in.


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 Post subject: Re: BD's discussionaire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:11 pm 
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13lind Dog wrote:
This done yet?
What I got so far...:


This, isn't going to be enough cals. It might get you to 140, but that is about it.

You are missing read meat, whole eggs, and more protein in general. Listen to Oscar.

Think about it: What does your body use to rebuild the muscle you break down by lifting? If you don't eat enough of that, what is your body going to do to compensate? It is going to fail, that is what it is going to do.

Do you even have 100g of protein in a day listed there? (400 cals) Break what you listed down into the numbers, total cals and macros for me. (I could do it, but you won't learn anything, lol)


Quote:

Also, the workout regime you linked to, is it supposed to be ABXABX or ABXABXX?


Do whatever you can. Whatever way it feels best.




13lind Dog wrote:
DB Flat Bench
10lb x 5
15lb x 5
20lb x 5
20lb x 5

...

DB Fly
10lb x 8


I would imagine you have a bigger bench that 20lbs for 5 if you can fly the 10's for 8.


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 Post subject: Re: BD's discussionaire
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:25 am 
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I noticed you're maxed out on your dumbells. I would suggest that you get an expandable set. Something like this:
Image
Check for local sources. These are $140 for a 200# set with 2 bars but shipping will kill you.

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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 Post subject: Re: BD's discussionaire
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:04 pm 
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Where's the Beef?
I'm a horrible cook and have been scouring through a cookbook this week...I'll put up my new diet regime (with beef) soon!

Eat the whole Egg!/You are missing whole eggs.

Unfortunately, eating the yolk makes me incredibly nauseous for ~5 hours after ingesting. Egg whites it'll have to be...=\

Eat more protein!

Noted!

Cans of tuna/salmon/chicken. Pick up a bag of Whey.
I'll look into that! But how exactly does Whey contribute?

Think about it: What does your body use to rebuild the muscle you break down by lifting? If you don't eat enough of that, what is your body going to do to compensate? It is going to fail, that is what it is going to do.

Like last time I do reckon...

Do you even have 100g of protein in a day listed there? (400 cals) Break what you listed down into the numbers, total cals and macros for me. (I could do it, but you won't learn anything, lol)
Energy: 2495 kcal
Protein: 93.6g
Carbs: 299.9g
Fat 111.2g
91% of Nutritional targets achieved
46.3% Carbs
38.8% lipids
14.9% protein.

So yeah...definitely could use more protein there...


I would imagine you have a bigger bench that 20lbs for 5 if you can fly the 10's for 8.
If I pushed myself, I could probably go higher, I just need to pick up some heavier DB's. Also, I could easily be holding back subconciously, in not wanting to injure myself like all the other times...Increasing my food intake this run definitely seems to be helping though!

I noticed you're maxed out on your dumbells. I would suggest that you get an expandable set. Check for local sources. These are $140 for a 200# set with 2 bars but shipping will kill you.
That's actually not that bad of a price! Since I don't work till 12am, I'll run around town today and see what deals I can find.


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 Post subject: Re: BD's discussionaire
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:38 pm 
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BD and Oscar having the following go at it:

I would imagine you have a bigger bench that 20lbs for 5 if you can fly the 10's for 8.
If I pushed myself, I could probably go higher, I just need to pick up some heavier DB's. Also, I could easily be holding back subconciously, in not wanting to injure myself like all the other times...
End

OK, on the subject of not having enough equipment, yadda, yadda. I go back a few years, and I've seen this done without macro amounts of weight. If all you had for your upper body was bodyweight, a simple upper body routine would easily add some strength and mass to you by using P bar chest dips, pull/chinups (with varying grips) and handstand pushups. Most people couldn't even start at bodyweight these days. When it gets easy, add your DB's by strapping them around your waist. Squats, well, grab your wife, grab your sister, grab your dog, whatever, put them on your back and squat it/them


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 Post subject: Re: BD's discussionaire
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:04 pm 
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edited to remove nonsense


Last edited by robertscott on Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: BD's discussionaire
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:30 pm 
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Sorry Bob, carbs have 4 calories. 2495 is within rounding error of accurate. It's alcohol that has 7 calories.

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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