ExRx.net

Exercise Prescription on the Net
It is currently Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:29 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Auto-regulating 531 Max
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:39 am 
Offline
Veteren Member
Veteren Member

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 2406
Have you all had experience trying this, or thoughts otherwise ?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:44 am 
Offline
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:20 pm
Posts: 4424
explain in more detail what you mean


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:08 pm 
Offline
Veteren Member
Veteren Member

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 2406
Using your reps on the final sets to recalc your relative max
then using that new Max before the next session of that movement.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:44 pm 
Offline
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:48 pm
Posts: 1352
Location: New York, USA
Oscar_Actuary wrote:
Using your reps on the final sets to recalc your relative max
then using that new Max before the next session of that movement.


Oscar, I have put considerable thought into every conceivable modification of every program ever written. Some of these modifications I have experimented with, and I can say with some confidence: don't bother.

The simplest reason is that the number you use in 5/3/1 is NOT your 1RM, and there is no such thing as your 1RM -- the best you can do on any given day is a factor of so many things. So I use the term "training number" for my pct calculations in 5/3/1, because that is what it actually is. It is a number used to calculate weights, and it has nothing to do with what my 1RM might be on a particular day.

As for the formula, don't get me started.

This is what I do. If I fail to make even one rep on 1+ day I either keep the weights the same or go down 1 increment. As long as I can make 1 on 1+ day I increment as 10# for lower body, 5# for upper. If you look at my training number history (viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8047&start=34) you will see little relation between the max reps and whether or not the number went up or down, all that I go by is that 1+ day.

Example, I once made 3/4/2 for deadlift on 5+/3+/1+ day, but I went ahead and increased the weight for the next cycle and made 5/3/1.

Only once have I missed 1+ day, for the squat, and I just repeated the cycle and this cycle I've increased again (we'll find out tonight how I do).

_________________
Vague goals beget vague methods


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:13 pm 
Offline
Veteren Member
Veteren Member

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 2406
I may just need to reasses my "Max" to start.
Otherwise its gonig to take 4 months to 5 rep what I 3 rep now.

Maybe I work backwards, with a bit of conservatism.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:08 pm 
Offline
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:48 pm
Posts: 1352
Location: New York, USA
Oscar_Actuary wrote:
I may just need to reasses my "Max" to start.
Otherwise its gonig to take 4 months to 5 rep what I 3 rep now.

Maybe I work backwards, with a bit of conservatism.


Which exercise?

Wendler says take your best 1RM lately, subtract 10%, and go from there.

Or, you can take your 5RM, use the formula to create a predicted 1RM, and use that. That method is at least internally consistent, it will have you doing about your 5RM on your first 5+ day, and just under your predicted 1RM on 1+ day, so you'll find out quick.

You can also go up by larger increments, 7.5# for bench, 15# for squat, etc., which I did on rows and bench when i was getting crazy results like 11/7/5 for, respectively, 5+, 3+ and 1+ days.

But of course everybody will tell you that if you do that you are going to stall sooner, or rather, stall harder. I really have no idea what to expect there. I have not stalled on deadlift yet, paused for one cycle on squat, and was rocketing forward with bench before I injured myself. Insufficient data for meaningful response.

_________________
Vague goals beget vague methods


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:44 pm 
Offline
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:20 pm
Posts: 4424
I think it's a bad idea. Just calculate your max, base your first cycle percentage off 90% of your max, then increase your max (the 90% one, not the true one) by a small increment (5lbs for upper body, 10lbs for lower body) every cycle.

In other words, I say just do it the way Wendler prescribes


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:42 pm 
Offline
Veteren Member
Veteren Member

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 2406
Perhaps, I am not as close to my max as I think
I do 3 reps at 204, lets say. That is about 216 lb 1 RM. That 204 feels like all I got.
After 90% and 85%, I'm squatting 5 reps at 168 lb and thats the top set.
I squat 5 reps at 193 lb now. Thats 2.5 cycles, or a long ass time to be behind what I do now.

Seems it might make more sense to work backwards to start and set the 90% Max at whatever it takes to make the Round A: Totp Set 5 Rep ~ 190 lbs.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:47 pm 
Offline
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:46 am
Posts: 1429
Location: Manchester, UK
Oscar_Actuary wrote:
After 90% and 85%, I'm squatting 5 reps at 168 lb and thats the top set.


I think i see the confusion, it's as many reps as possible with five being the minimum the first week. If 216 is your 1RM, then your first cycle will be based off 195 (90% of 216). So the top sets for the first cycle will be -

1st week - As man reps as possible (AMRAP) at 165lbs
2nd week - AMRAP @ 175lbs
3rd week - AMRAP @ 185lbs

Does that make sense or have i got the wrong end of the stick?

Edit - Have you read the book?

_________________
What if the Hokey Cokey really IS what it's all about?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:55 pm 
Offline
Veteren Member
Veteren Member

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 2406
PK,

I see what you are saying and I did know all that, about the AMRAP. But still the time for "at least" 5 at 195 will be months away.

I imagine 5/3/1 is not a good idea for me, as written.
I have not read the book


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:22 pm 
Offline
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:20 pm
Posts: 4424
Oscar_Actuary wrote:
I have not read the book


you should. Every single question about 5/3/1 is answered in the book.

Wendler's writing style is entertaining too


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:55 pm 
Offline
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:48 pm
Posts: 1352
Location: New York, USA
Oscar_Actuary wrote:
I imagine 5/3/1 is not a good idea for me, as written.
I have not read the book


Um, er, ah.... forget it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:00 pm 
Offline
Veteren Member
Veteren Member

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:12 pm
Posts: 2406
I'm pretty sure I would enjoy the book and learn something
That goes for about 34,786,703 other books out there as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:59 pm 
Offline
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:20 pm
Posts: 4424
better get reading then Ozzy


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:18 pm 
Offline
moderator
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:11 am
Posts: 7503
Location: Kudjip, Papua New Guinea
Oscar, I was going to say exactly what PK said. Think of 5/3/1 as a high-volume routine that evolves into a high-intensity routine.

_________________
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group