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 Post subject: Re: Form checks
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:49 am 
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hoosegow wrote:
...Oh, and the people in yer gym talk funny.
Do ya think?

Location: Lapland, Finland.

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 Post subject: Re: Form checks
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:45 am 
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Thanks for the stills.

I'll answer Hoose's question for you--no, you can't get an leg drive with that arch. None. The force from your legs is just going into pushing up on your rear end, but you are keeping it on the bench, so whatever energy you're putting into your legs is wasted. Get the feet flat, then drive them down and away as you lift.

I wish I could hear the people talk funny.

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 Post subject: Re: Form checks
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:16 am 
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Dub wrote:
robertscott wrote:
that's one hell of an arch you've got there mate.

do you have a video of the bench or just stills?

It's there on the post, it's an url inside the words bench press form.
Here's the normal link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwBtdO4cJ64


oh right sorry I missed that.

Hmmm. It looks a bit like you have your feet too much on your toes to me, I'd flatten them a bit.

And get a hand-off!


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 Post subject: Re: Form checks
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:46 am 
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I know stu. That was a lame attempt at comedy.

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 Post subject: Re: Form checks
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:52 am 
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Thanks for the comments.
It's true I'm having issues with leg drive/leg positioning. Why? Because my leg drive happens to cause huge hip/lower back extension, which instantly lifts my arse from the bench. That's why the very tight curling and tippytoeing. There's one thing I really need to work.

I'll film the bench again probably on sunday with the squat, and we'll see if I'm on the right correcting tracks. Also, Hoose, I'll provide shots from behind or in front of the bench, so we can see if there's something to correct on elbows and grip.

And yeah, finnish is fun. Also, there appeared to be some kids and/or women on the background at some point, hence the weird squeky sounds.

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 Post subject: Re: Form checks
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:28 pm 
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change the angle of your legs. If the angle from your hip to knee points down, you shouldn't, in theory, be able to lift your arse off the bench


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 Post subject: Re: Form checks
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:32 pm 
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I'm going to have to disagree with the leg position. Dub's is excessive, but check out Julia Ladewski benching close to twice here bodyweight. Well up on her toes, and feet place well behind her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfWLP36F ... re=related

Sorry you won't be able to see it Doc.

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 Post subject: Re: Form checks
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:03 pm 
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It confuses me too. Because my number 1 source, Dave Tate, also Benches with almost all the weight on the balls of his feet, almost on toes.
He also points out that you should drive your heels down, but he doesn't really say if it's better to keep feet flat on the ground.
But yes, maybe I should reduce it atleast a bit. We'll feel on that on saturday or sunday.

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 Post subject: Re: Form checks
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:21 pm 
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Note, I never said don't do it. I've seen several people with crazy arches like that and foot placement like that. I also noticed your legs flexing when you bench, so it is obvious you are getting something out of it. I just question how much and is there a better position for you to be in.

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 Post subject: Re: Form checks
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:46 pm 
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My opening caveat: I dont lift competitively. I dont lift to move the "maximum" amount of weight. I lift so that I feel comfortable with the movement and can satisfy my internal benchmarks. Could I lift more weight if I used a more strict form? Maybe. But I wouldnt keep coming back to the gym.

Deadlift form from the side looks good to me. The straight on one is a bit of a puzzler though. I think it has been addressed for the most part, but I would look at several reps at different weight ranges to see if it occurs in all of them and if the mixed grip has an influence.

Your bench form looks like a well coached "power-lifting" set up from the side. Being that we cant see how wide your hands are, or how your arms move through the lift relative to your sides, difficult to say with high confidence.

The main thing I would add is that you should allow your stance or set up to evolve over time as you find what you are comfortable with and what works best for you. Guys will contort themselves into the most painful positions imaginable if it allows them to get that extra 10 pounds up. I use an arch but nothing like yours, mostly because I dont have the spine flexability you have. Feet flat, as far back as they can go but still be flat on the floor. Elbows tucked pretty close.

My issues with my set up are all in the legs, if I dont stretch them or warm them up I can almost guarantee a quad or hip flexor cramp when I set up or during the lift. Tightness from calves, up through thighs, glutes, and back is very important, you seem still sort of ...er... mobile when you unrack the weight. Everything should be locked in place once you take on the weight.

I was wondering if maybe your sharp arch is interfering with the ability to lock your back into a stable platform. The Julia Ladewski vid has a similarly sharp arch and foot placement, but she's solid as a rock during the lift. Rather than try to achieve the exact same form, go for the same result: rock solid platform to push from.


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 Post subject: Re: Form checks
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:12 pm 
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Okay, it took a bit longer to deliver the footage from my bench. I took it from an another angle this time to find if there is something to say about grip or elbow-flaring. I couldn't get overhead view, so the elbow thing might not be so clear from these photos.

Image

Image

Any comments or notes?

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 Post subject: Re: Form checks
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:30 pm 
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Your wrists are bent backwards, so that the bar's weight is behind your arms. Get you wrists rotated forward so the bar is centered over your forearm.


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 Post subject: Re: Form checks
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:43 pm 
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I think your wrists look fine (Ken might be right, though). My biggest issue, with what I see here, is your grip. It appears to me that it is way too narrow. I can't see for sure, but it looks like you are an inch inside of the marks. Even with that crazy ass arch, your elbows appear obviously below the bench. Try widening your grip one finger width per session or every other session.

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 Post subject: Re: Form checks
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:11 pm 
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I also think that your wrists are cocked back. The elbow, wrist and bar should be aligned.

I was actually going to say that I thought the grip was too wide! The forearms should be vertical at the bottom, when the bar is touching the chest. This gives you the best mechanical advantage. Wider reduces the ROM, so that might be an advantage. Experiment and decide for yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: Form checks
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:30 am 
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Elbows out VS elbows in:

Doing it with the elbows out tends to be the bodybuilding style, whereas elbows in is used more in powerlifting. It looks like you are working on doing elbows in, but they flair out just a bit. I'm not sure if that really matters though.

The grip width looks right to me. It's kind of personal preference to a point though. It's a balance between shoulder comfort and generating more force with the chest. The wrists are bent back a little too far, but not bad. The arch is good. Depth is fine if your shoulders take it and you are bouncing it off your chest, otherwise I might stop an inch above. I would try to get your feet on the floor all the way if height allows, in order to get more drive from the legs.


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