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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:58 pm 
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Ironman wrote:
My wife didn't have any problems with melatonin.


does she still take it or did she come off?

Jungledoc wrote:
WEll, there are other things that doctors, especially sleep specialists can do.

Why not just sleep on the couch? Brush your teeth right after you eat so you don't have to worry about it when you fall asleep. Then just hang out on the couch until you fall asleep, then don't worry about getting up to move to bed.


really? I would have thought it was as binary as either take sleeping pills, or don't take sleeping pills.

That's an interesting question about why I don't sleep on the sofa. You know, I've never really thought about it. I guess I've just always thought that sleeping on the sofa was kinda gross.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:11 pm 
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KPj wrote:
I think it's largely a habitual thing, at least with me, anyway. Sometimes I fall back into the same routine and end up getting hardly any sleep, then dealing with chronic fatigue. I know it's bad when my dad, probably the hardest working guy i've ever came across, lectures me about doing too much. I can quite easily get to that point where i'm TOO fatigued - so tired I can't sleep. I'm weary of the early signs now. My appetite and skin are the first to show it (I suspect the skin thing is a side effect of loss of appetite - Less food with less recovery time with the same amount of stress... Something's got to give...).

Also, all my life I've always been someone who went to my bed late. Therefore, i've never been the type to bounce out of bed, more like drag myself out of bed, then a double measure of coffee to bring me alive. I think this is what set the wheels in motion for it, to be honest. As I got older I added work, bills, and general grown-up-stress to the mix, and it's far from an ideal habit to be in.

I'm also quite sure a large part of being successful in life is down to your ability to get up in the morning. My dad has said this my whole life, "I don't care what you do, if you can't get out your bed in the morning, you won't be as successful as you could be." I think this is one common theme among anyone i've met or read about that's "successful" (I use quotes because we all have different definitions of success) - they get up early.


this is interesting. I REALLY struggle to get out of bed in the morning. I'm a totally different person for about 2 hours. So very grumpy. Everyone knows not to talk to me in the mornings. I'm really very unpleasant.

Although, doing too much is definitely not a problem I've ever had...

KPj wrote:

I know! This was key for me. I did literally sleep on the couch for weeks as a short term fix. One thing I did notice is that after my "going to bed routine", I felt wide awake, so I done all this well before I actually went to bed. Plus what you're actually doing on the couch, or thinking about, it's almost always literally nothing. Nothing of any significance, anyway. When you get to bed you start thinking. If you're like me that's enough to keep you awake as I have a very active mind to the point where just sitting thinking can stimulate my mind more than TV or a book (not all books).


I may well start brushing me teeth after my last meal. Thing is, I just know I'd get hungry again and have to eat with a rank minty taste in my mouth...

KPj wrote:
robertscott wrote:
Is Z12 melatonin? I bought some ZMA because I heard that helped you sleep. It didn't work, but it definitely gives me much more vivid dreams which is kinda cool.


Not sure what it is, I got it after reading positive reviews and i had free points on my account, the ingredients are, as listed on t-nation website,
4-amino-3-phenyl-butanoic acid HCL (PhGABA)
L-theanine
5-hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP)


did you order from Biotest? Surely it cost an absolute fortune!? I was going to order some of their clothes (before Jason Nunn told me they put you in the same category as those chumps that wear tapout t shirts. Totally put me off...) but it was sooooo expensive for shipping

KPj wrote:

If you can't get a set time that you go to bed, then just work on the last couple of hours before you go to bed, regardless of the time. I think the key is in learning to switch off and stay switched off....

LOL, on the diary, well, to use about the only credible argument i've seen for Yoga - If Dan John does it, then i'll give it a shot :la:


about the staying switched off thing, don't I know it! It's just how to actually do that that's the problem! As for doing something because Dan John does it, if Dan John jumped off a cliff, would you do it?

Actually I probably would. I don't want to live in a world with no Dan John...

KPj wrote:
Definitely get back into reading. "reading is to the mind what exercise is to the body" - don't know who said this but I definitely never made it up myself. It's amazing. In the same sense that I feel good making myself stronger whilst most other people I know are wasting away on the couch watching TV, I get the same with reading. Most people don't read, they watch crap on TV and glance at tabloids to know what's going on in the world. I've developed a new fascination for History, too. It's amazing. School ruins history for you, they make it seem boring. Anyway, i'm going off subject...

KPj


the problem with reading is the books I read are too exciting! Also, when I'm reading I lose track of time and can easily stay up til 4 in the morning by mistake. A history book, however, would put me straight to sleep


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:01 pm 
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I used to be a chronic night owl - I thank working/frequenting bars and nightclubs (and smoking a lot of pot) over the years for that.

I'm in a day job now, and my day is fairly well regimented. Up at 5:30AM, walk, shower, breakfast 7AM, work at 8AM, training at 4:30PM and so on. Through trial and error I've realised my ideal sleep time is 7 hours, so I'm in bed by 10PM, I know I haven't had enough sleep if I start yawning at about 10AM. The other thing is I don't feel tired when I get into bed, but I will fall asleep, if I don't force myself to close the laptop or turn off the TV, I could easily stay up till 1 or 2AM until I passed out.

My point is you need to find your own equilibrium within a set routine, I don't think using supplements or pharm drugs for sleep is the answer, its like trying to cure obesity by buying a bigger belt, try changing something up but keeping the routine as similar as possible, if it doesn't work, adjust something else. If all else fails see a specialist, sleep apnea is a real possibility don't forget.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:08 pm 
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robertscott wrote:
really? I would have thought it was as binary as either take sleeping pills, or don't take sleeping pills.

Not at all. It's a whole subspecialty these days. Either pulmonary (lung) specialists or psychiatrists can subspecialize in sleep medicine, maybe others, but those are the ones I know about. And "sleeping pills" is now a pretty broad range these days. There are many medicines that may be helpful with some aspect of sleep. They aren't all simply sedatives.

I, of course, don't know anything about the availability of sleep medicine doctors there, but I would guess that there must be a t least a few, if you can get referred to them.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:36 am 
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robertscott wrote:
Ironman wrote:
My wife didn't have any problems with melatonin.


does she still take it or did she come off?



She still takes it sometimes, but not always.


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