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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:04 am 
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Thinking of 3 day split 5 days per week using the exrx.net workout template pull/push/thighs (the thighs split as I've noticed they are responding well since I increased sets, reps, and number of exercises). I've only consistently lifted for the last 5 months (on off for many years before). On this return I was doing full body twice a week, then three times, then 2 day split 3 days, and finally 2 day split 4 days a week. My number of sets and reps have gone up a fair bit and my workouts are well over an hour (usually close to 2). I'm getting the size results I want but I don't feel like I'm pushing myself enough as far as concentrating on the heavy weights for each body part. Say I do upper, then I'm able to put a lot into my first few exercises and it gradually diminishes (as would be expected) to the point that my shoulders and arms suffer). If I change to the 3 day split 5 days a week I think I can put closer to the 100% into each major body part AND not be gassed out for the next workout, however I'm not quiet hitting each body part 2 or 3 times a week like I was in previous workouts. It will also help not make the gym monopolise my time if I can be in and out in about 40 minutes.

Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:34 am 
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Uh, Sounds rough. Few things to consider.

1) Results come from rest, not work. Recovery is always the most important aspect of your program. If everything else is good, but you can't get enough rest, you're gonna have a bad time. Your progress might suffer from the change. Five day split might not cause better results than four day splits. Feeling beat-up and worn out doesn't guarantee progress.

2) You don't have to hit every muscle hard. The fact is that with only four or five movements you can totally kill your whole body, in under an hour. You just have to pick the right exercises and have the right volume and intensity. Small isolation exercises will make you have dozens of exercises working on that small 10 accessorial exercises for hours, and might not even bring the same results. You must remember the fact that if you're working on a certain muscle, lets say pecs, you are also working on several other muscles. In most cases these are shoulders, triceps and upper back. Of course you are more tired at the end. There is not too much of exercises that use only one muscle. There usually are several assisting, stabilizing and synergizing musclework also. The fact that you haven't done a specific exercise for some minor muscle doesn't mean you haven't worked it through. Many of the muscles will be recovering the next day even though you didn't have an exercise targeted for the muscle.

3) If the four day split works, why change? You just have to arrange and pick your exercises so it wont be two hours between coming to the gym and crawling out of there. You could be too eager on this one. You said it yourself: Your sets and reps have gone greatly up and you are seeing the size results you want! So why change anything then? You could scramble it with changing the exercises if variety and new kind of uncomfotableness is what you want. Is there possibly something you could drop? Or do shorter? Or superset?

But hey, you CAN always try it out. I have a friend who does a five day split spread into five days, and he's doing well with it. Not sure how he's progressing, but hey, he's alive still. You know it best, you yourself know what works for you in the end. You know and feel if you are getting the much needed rest

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:13 am 
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you can train twice a day, seven days a week as long as your recovery is in order.

Try it, if you are feeling beat up all the time then eat more/sleep more. If that doesn't help then you're doing too much. Scale it back until you are doing the maximum you can without interfering with recovery.

Recovery is key.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:36 am 
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If I could go to the gym 5 days a week, or if I had a home gym I would just do a muscle group a day.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:16 pm 
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Dub wrote:
Uh, Sounds rough. Few things to consider.

1) Results come from rest, not work. Recovery is always the most important aspect of your program.


No.

And I didn't read anymore.
You don't always have to write a book when responding

Rest is important.
We don't know nearly enough to presume rest is going to be a problem here


Mike
Try it. WTH do we know?
No one knows you well enough to tell you. Now, can you create a propsterous routine, yep. But you could also set something up that works great.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:32 pm 
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Well I might not try it now at this point in time due to elbow issues.

I thought I had twinged my elbow a bit a couple of weeks ago. Did nothing for it. I'm fairly confident it is not tennis elbow as the pain is not bad enough and I imagine its similar to tendinitis (which I've had in my wrists plenty of times). Then last week my elbow failed during a bench press on a weight I normally could do comfortably. This all during a upper/lower 2 day split 4 days a week. Today elbow played up again and was sorer than ever after my workout. I'm thinking that I haven't allowed enough recovery whilst increasing reps and sets, so I might ease back a bit to a full body twice a week or the 2 day split 3 times a week for a few weeks once my elbow settles down. I can't take anti-inflammatory's so I've been using ice. I've always warmed up and down so I doubt that could be the issue.

I will try the 3 day split 5 days a week hopefully sometime soonish and let you know how it goes.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:50 pm 
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I'm not saying that it's tennis elbow, but your reasons for concluding that it's not don't make any sense.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:25 pm 
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Mike Robertson has lots of good tips on working with elbow pain. Check it out:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... _body_pain

These pointers and tips include:
- Traction
- Soft tissue work on your whole upper body
- Prefer DB over Barbell.
- Consider on dropping the elbow isolation for a while.

From my piggy bank of 2 cents, try fatter grips and grip work in general. Stuff like farmers walks, all kinds of deadlifts and such. That provides traction to the elbow, and it strengthen the muscles around the joint. Elbow is a joint that needs more stability than mobility, so the muscle strength is important on all sides.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:22 pm 
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Jungledoc wrote:
I'm not saying that it's tennis elbow, but your reasons for concluding that it's not don't make any sense.


I read it was painful to pick things up certain ways with tennis elbow (which I get when I've had tendinitis in my wrists) but I'm not having any trouble like that. I also saw a diagram of where the injury is meant to occur and it doesn't feel like the right spot for my pain (it feels more like the top of my elbow and top of my forearm). I also read it was quiet painful. I'm a baby when it comes to pain and this wasn't turning me into a baby. It really feels like simple overuse which I've had from things like darts playing marathons. I'm also thinking I might've used to much weight on reverse curls, since I feel that near the elbow and that's where a lot of the pain is (not just the elbow itself).

I must admit I only read a tiny bit.


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