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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:26 am 
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SHOULDERS!

After doing a delt workout using bands during the day, I woke up the next day and my right shoulder is in trouble. I have pain more towards the front, and when I lift my arm horizontal and twist there a good amount of popping and cracking. I've slept funny on my left shoulder about 4 years ago giving my tendonitis (spelling), and not being into lifting didn't really need to do anything other than rest according to my doctor. (The NHS are great :cussing: )

But now, I'm looking for information on shoulder health, and after reading 'The Foundations of Shoulder Health' topic picked up a few stretches;
Band Pull-Aparts Behind The Neck
Band Pull-Aparts

My workout targets all 3 deltoid 'heads', and incorporate the rota cuff when a can, doing external rotations.

I've seen 'LYTP' mentioned a few times but have no idea what it is really? I also have no idea how/if you can use a tennis ball for soft tissue regarding the delts? I'm only a beginner and looking forward into discovering more but for the moment, I only really need easy-to-understand stuff, as the shoulder joint is stupidly complicated :scratch: . I'm just looking for general shoulder health really.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:46 am 
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@stharrison:

Take a look at this thread

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8700

and see if it is any help

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:33 pm 
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add face pulls into your routine, and get a decent shoulder warm up for before your upper body days. I like the dieselcrew 5 minute shoulder warm up. If you google it you'll find it. Makes your shoulders feel good as new after


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:05 pm 
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I wrote something long and awesome, but it got eaten by the hotel wifi. So here's the cole's notes:

Why do you need to do delt work? Do you have a delt problem? Cuz it sounds like you don't, but if you keep it up, you will. Your delts probably get plenty of work on your bench/chest day. Focus on your rear delts, and all of a sudden those front and side delts will be a whole lot better...

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:42 pm 
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robertscott wrote:
add face pulls into your routine, and get a decent shoulder warm up for before your upper body days. I like the dieselcrew 5 minute shoulder warm up. If you google it you'll find it. Makes your shoulders feel good as new after


Face pulls are already in there, my current shoulder workout looks likes this:

Seated military press/overhead press (either or)
anterior raises
face pulls
anterior raises
rear delt flyes
upright row

After following Stephen Johnson's post, I've decided to remove upright row, as its the only exercise to cause pain, and include Barbell Rear Delt Raise to get more posterior work (as I've only recently in the last 2 weeks added face pulls and rear delt flys.)

JasonJones wrote:
I wrote something long and awesome, but it got eaten by the hotel wifi. So here's the cole's notes:

Why do you need to do delt work? Do you have a delt problem? Cuz it sounds like you don't, but if you keep it up, you will. Your delts probably get plenty of work on your bench/chest day. Focus on your rear delts, and all of a sudden those front and side delts will be a whole lot better...


Delt work is primarily for appearance, and with the workout above I believe I have hit the rear delts pretttttty good? As for chest day, I've reduced heavily the amount of chest work as when I first started working out I was only focusing on the 'beach' muscles and now my chest is looking how I want it after easing the workout.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:45 pm 
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drop the anterior raises. They get the $h1t kicked out of them when you train chest, no need to do any isolation stuff for them.

if you're training for appearance you need a lateral raise


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:38 pm 
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stharrison wrote:
Delt work is primarily for appearance, and with the workout above I believe I have hit the rear delts pretttttty good? As for chest day

Let's take a closer look:
Quote:
Seated military press/overhead press (either or) (anterior)
anterior raises (anterior)
face pulls (posterior)
anterior raises (anterior)(double?)
rear delt flyes (posterior)
upright row

3 anterior vs. 2 posterior. You need at least 4 more posterior exercises, plus posterior exercises to balance out chest day.

You're on the pain train, dude. Next stop: injury. But you'll have the sickest looking front delts in the surgeon's office!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:33 am 
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I typed anterior raises twice by mistake, I meant lateral raises where I said anterior the first time. Anteriorr don't really get hit on chest day, because chest day is light for me.

Yeah your right a JJ, and I'm already suffering, that's why I've posted to try to get some advice so, what should I change?

I thought Seated military press/overhead press targeted lateral aswell, obviously I'm mistaken. Is arnold press also anterior?

Other than lateral raises what else is there for the lateral head? Upright row is lateral right? I'm struggling doing that as it causes pain sometimes, maybe if I drop so many anterior, increase posterior, it wont hurt as much?

A don't even know if I'm doing the right number of exercises, 6 seems nice, 2xanterior, 2xlateral, 2xposterior?

I'm all ears guys! Sorry for all the questions!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:44 am 
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you really don't need to isolate your anterior delts.

All presses are mostly anterior. A dumbell press with your arms at 90 degrees will involve a bit more lateral head but really lateral raises and upright rows are the only way to hit it properly.

you may just have to drop all pressing and lateral work and hammer the $h1t out of your upper back and rear delts to get your shoulders healthy again, then add the lateral work and presses back in in a month or so


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:38 am 
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I was thinking of trying these out for a round of 5/3/1, any consensus?

http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/Deltoid ... aises.html


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:44 am 
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Oscar_Actuary wrote:
I was thinking of trying these out for a round of 5/3/1, any consensus?

http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/Deltoid ... aises.html


i tried those but found they hit waaaaay more traps than lateral delt, which is exactly what I didn't want. My traps tend to take over on shoulder moves at the best of times so it was a no go for me.

give it a try though, couldn't hurt. Unless, of course, it hurts


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:49 pm 
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I'll alternate anterior raises and military press every shoulder workout then, and include some more posterior work, any recommendations? Also, what is the correct form for face pulls? E.g. hand position, elbow height....also when I do them, i bend my knees slightly, and keep my back straight? Is that alright? Is there a video anywhere showing the correct form?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:46 pm 
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I now do them lying on bench (better isolate imo), with rope slightly over nose, pulling towards chin. I find it a challeng to not use the forearms too much. I mean, your back/scapula/delts can only pull back so much, the rest of the distance is arm bending.

Staying for better replies...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:44 pm 
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stharrison wrote:
I'll alternate anterior raises


Don't. It won't make your shoulders any bigger (unless you're already bodybuilder big). Hell, even bodybuilders don't train for size, they train for symmetry. Isolation exercises are to correct imbalances (asymmetries), so isolating an imbalance is only going to make it worse.

Maybe don't even have a shoulder day. Do you have a shin day? Swap it for a military press day instead. Military press is a movement, and a very fundamental one at that. Instead of focussing on how to "blast" (i.e. wreck) your shoulders, focus on how to improve a fundamental movement pattern, and program accessory work that's going to compliment that. Military press, follow it with rows, face pulls, rear flyes, external rotations, prone Ys, scaptions, etc. If you can nail a military press that makes your teeth sweat and your balls puke, I guarantee your shoulders will look better than they will with 12 pound front raises.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:46 pm 
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JasonJones wrote:
Do you have a shin day?

JJ hasn't written a bad post yet.

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