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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 11:02 am 
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Lol I know this sounds like a bad topic but I had a quick question and I cant tell. I recently started stronglifts and have followed it down to the letter but also added maybe some pullups and ab wheels and 1 set of dumbell Presses and stuff but not enough to impact me wrongly. So this Sunday I felt the strongest I had ever been after I finished my squats. I ripped through the workout and felt I was getting stronger! This tuesday, I went back and Although I increased the weight of my squats by another 5 I felt strong for the first 4 sets but after my 5th set I felt like I was breathing way too heavy and I felt very run down. I managed to finish the dead lifts and mili presses and I did 1 set of leg extensions and 1 set of leg curls. I got out of there and went straight home! Now today, I have to go through it again but dont feel like I recovered. My muscles arent sore but I just feel like that "weak" kind of feeling. Is this a sign to stop the workout or is it just a small wall I hit that my body will eventually break through because it has to get used to it?


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 11:19 am 
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How is your diet and rest? You get enough carbs, proteins and sleep? Those are very important factors around recovery.
Have you taken any deload weeks? Try go one week for a lot lower weight, with same rep/set scheme. Or then do only the accessorial work.
The problem with stronglifts and similar is that they always demand increased workload. If you don't feel like lifting heavy PR's, you most likely wont succeed in lifting heavy PR's. Take a deload week every now and then, like every fourth or sixth week. Listen to your body. One solution could also be to remove all the extra work you're doing: Just do the stronglifts, and nothing more. Less is more.

There are ways to test recovering, one is waking heart-rate. Check this article about the method:
http://mattsiniscalchi.wordpress.com/20 ... -bodymind/

People are very individual on what it comes to recovery, some can do Heavy resistance training every day, some only three times a week. Still I would say that in most cases the problem isn't overtraining, it's just a matter of insufficient recovery. You haven't worked too much, it's your resting and recovery routines that give the issue. May it be lack of sleep, too much stress, poor nutrition or something biological.

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 2:14 pm 
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Immortal2 wrote:
Lol I know this sounds like a bad topic but I had a quick question and I cant tell. I recently started stronglifts and have followed it down to the letter but also added maybe some pullups and ab wheels and 1 set of dumbell Presses and stuff but not enough to impact me wrongly.


What you should have said: "I started stronglifts and didn't really follow it, I added a bunch of other exercises. I'm sure it did not impact me but I'm not sure if I overtrained, which means I really have no idea if it impacted me."

Here is the #1 thing you need to understand about stronglifts, it was created by somebody who intended to make his living with it knowing he would never meet 99.99% of the guys that did it. The only way for that to work is if he made it as simple as possible and insisted that it not be modified. That way he could give advice over the internet to strangers and stand a good chance of having it work. If you change the program, he (and we) lose the ability to do that.

Anyway, the following information is required to diagnose:

1) What weights did you start with for each exercise?
2) What day was your first workout? What days of the week are you doing it?
3) What extra exercises did you do on which of those days?
4) Do you get 8 hours of sleep per night. Note I did not say "on average" meaning 4 one night and 12 the next, but a minimum of 8 per night?
5) Do you get plenty to eat?
6) Have you been avoiding booze since starting SL to get a "clean read" of its effects?
7) Have you (mostly) been avoiding junk food, apart from perhaps a dessert or two?
8) What weights were the squats and deadlifts on that last workout you mention?


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 2:41 pm 
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Eat more, sleep more, don't eat garbage.

Also, take fish oil - might be psychosomatic but I swear I get about 90% less DOMS now and I take about 2000mg/day.

The way I lift, each day I work my way up to a set of three heavy singles on one of the "big three" and do some accessory work - and I never really get DOMS.

All that being said, I do feel like hammered crap today (heavy squats last night) and am taking the day off.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 5:24 pm 
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i dont want to sleep 1/3 of my life away.


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:23 pm 
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"Overtrained" and "being a pussy" are not mutually exclusive. It is possible for overtrained people to be pussys, and for pussys to overtrain. They are not the only tow alternatives. How about simple fatigue? You have to learn to pace yourself in terms of both intensity (amount of weight moved) and volume (reps). They affect you differently. A few heavy reps may be less fatiguing than a lot of lighter reps. You have to learn this for yourself. That's one reason why a "canned" program can be difficult. There's no room for thinking for yourself or thinking on your feet. On the other hand, a canned program may be a good thing when you haven't yet learned to think for yourself. If you follow a program "to a T", there's no chance to play with small variations.

There's a lot to consider in managing fatigue:
--how many days of rest before and after the workout. Usually it's best to put your most fatiguing exercise after extra rest, perhaps at the beginning of your training week or training cycle.
--how you space upper body and lower body. Even in a generally whole body workout, there is usually some variation here. Alternating the days that are more fatiguing to upper vs. lower can help.
--how many of your lifts are you trying to prioritize. As a raw beginner, you can probably make progress on many lifts at a time. After a while it works better to emphasize 2 or 3 lifts at a time, maybe even making 1 lift a true priority and 1 or 2 a "second tier". The others are either in maintenance mode, or are accessories.
--how fatiguing is each day of your routine. If every day is a balls to the wall sort of day, you will wear out fast. If some days are given to lower-priority and accessory lifts, you may continue recovery, and decrease the accumulation of fatigue.

Think of your energy as an account. You can make deposits and make withdrawals. Sleep, good food, recreation, time away for stress make deposits. Workout, anxiety, stress, alcohol in excess (even small excess), other drugs all make withdrawals. Look at your whole life and start work on getting your books balanced.

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Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 1:03 pm 
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Failing at weightlifting doesn't make you "a pussy". Changing stronglifts into some goofy dumbbell pressing routine makes you a pussy.

Did you think that if you added some 20 pound chest presses your pecs would suddenly explode and you'd have a beach ready body? All you did was ensure that the biomechanical balance of stronglifts was destroyed, and increase the likelihood that you're going to hurt your shoulders. People always forget that years before he was Mr. Olympia, Schwarzenegger could bench 440 pounds and deadlift almost 700. He didn't get to look like that by doing 15 pound curls while making faces in the mirror.

Take your left hand, and put it down flat on the desk. Take your right hand, and make a fist. Now slam that fist into your left hand. Pretend that's me, reaching across the internet with a swift hand of justice, and punishing you for thinking you had discovered a shortcut that nobody in history had ever thought of.

Next, pick up your training journal, and throw it out. You didn't use it right and now it's ruined. Clear the bars, start over. Do your squats, drink your milk, and when you come back here to visit me in a year you'll be a completely different animal all together. We'll joke about how you can't do dumbbell chest presses because they don't make dumbbells heavy enough.

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 7:08 pm 
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JasonJones wrote:
Failing at weightlifting doesn't make you "a pussy". Changing stronglifts into some goofy dumbbell pressing routine makes you a pussy.

Did you think that if you added some 20 pound chest presses your pecs would suddenly explode and you'd have a beach ready body? All you did was ensure that the biomechanical balance of stronglifts was destroyed, and increase the likelihood that you're going to hurt your shoulders. People always forget that years before he was Mr. Olympia, Schwarzenegger could bench 440 pounds and deadlift almost 700. He didn't get to look like that by doing 15 pound curls while making faces in the mirror.

Take your left hand, and put it down flat on the desk. Take your right hand, and make a fist. Now slam that fist into your left hand. Pretend that's me, reaching across the internet with a swift hand of justice, and punishing you for thinking you had discovered a shortcut that nobody in history had ever thought of.

Next, pick up your training journal, and throw it out. You didn't use it right and now it's ruined. Clear the bars, start over. Do your squats, drink your milk, and when you come back here to visit me in a year you'll be a completely different animal all together. We'll joke about how you can't do dumbbell chest presses because they don't make dumbbells heavy enough.


I'm hoosegow and I approve this message. My second nomination for post of the year. It doesn't deserve a clap. It deserves a wave.


:wav:

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 9:36 pm 
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I'm so glad I read this whole thread now!


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 11:44 pm 
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Rank suggestion: "High Sage"

Or "Sagacious Seer"

Or "Smart and Witty Guy"

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Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 6:40 am 
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How about "Guy who doesn't post enough".

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 5:00 pm 
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Oh $h1t, I really thought my post went through, I hate doing this on Iphone because my lap top is never with me. Ok so for my diet Im eating about 3700 calories with most of it coming from fat and the last bit from carbs and protein. I get most of my nutrients from nuts, eggs, olive oil, chicken, steak, rice, muscle milk, and about 2 bananas a day. Problem is that sometimes counting calories is hard but I try my best and always average about 3700 sometimes going close to 4000 and sometimes I barely get 3000. I think Im "ok" with diet but I might have to eat more probably because when i bumped up the calories I gained weight right away but now Im not gaining anything. I gained about 6 pounds and then just stopped gaining. Sucks. As for the workout. This week I didn't add anything to it and still felt a little drained out. I may switch to 3X5 or possibly a "doubles" workout where I do multiple sets of two reps. I think as you do 5X5 and start going heavier it starts to become hard on the CNS. I asked a few guys who have experience at the gym and they all said to drop the extra 2 sets and Ill see improvement. I might even drop the squat workouts to only 2 days and not 3 and instead of squat in the middle day, simply do power cleans or even add a few sets to Bench and Row and call it day.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 6:07 pm 
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/ hope.




jj,
beware of throwing good money after bad


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