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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:31 am 
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Ironman wrote:
Honestly if you're a beginner I'd do none of the above. You need to do something though and you're already confused. I was just commenting on that WS thing or whatever. I don't like splits for beginners usually. I would recommend doing a very simple routine. Flat and incline press, rows, chins, squats, deadlifts. If you do that, you really can't go wrong.


Add something about an overhead press (not behind the neck) and you have the base for anybody at any skill level for anything other than O-lifts.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:39 pm 
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hoosegow wrote:
Ironman wrote:
Honestly if you're a beginner I'd do none of the above. You need to do something though and you're already confused. I was just commenting on that WS thing or whatever. I don't like splits for beginners usually. I would recommend doing a very simple routine. Flat and incline press, rows, chins, squats, deadlifts. If you do that, you really can't go wrong.


Add something about an overhead press (not behind the neck) and you have the base for anybody at any skill level for anything other than O-lifts.


Agreed. Overhead press can be substituted for incline press, in this situation.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:03 pm 
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Jungledoc wrote:
robertscott wrote:
... in case it makes your head explode!

A while back when we had the thread about how we treat newbies, we never really considered exploding heads. That really cuts down on the once who go on to be regular posters.


makes me think of Scanners, that old David Cronenberg film


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:29 am 
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Hi, thanks for all your help and I admit this was ages ago. But I started a horrific work commitment about a month after this thread which completely stopped me from going to the gym. I recently started going again, and after a bit of trial-and-error I changed the previous workout and thought I should probably ask the opinion of the far more knowledgeable people on here. So if you don't mind looking over it and no doubt telling me I am incredibly wrong then it would be very very appreciated. As a side note then if my weight/height/etc and the weights I lift would be of any use just say.

monday - upper body

-max set close-grip bench press
-4x15 incline dumbbell press
-4x15 chest supported rows
-3x15 cable reverse fly
-4x15 dumbbell situps
-3x15 lateral fly

tuesday - cardio

-cardio
-crunches
-leg raises

wednesday - legs

-max set deadlifts
-4x15 barbell reverse lunges
-4x10 leg curls
-4x10 leg extensions

thursday - cardio

friday - upper body

-3 x max reps bench press
-4x10 cable pushdowns
-4x12 lat pulls
-3x15 dumbbell shoulder press
-3x10 barbell curls
-4x10 preacher curl

weekend -cardio + misc

-pull up 4 x max reps
-chin up 4 x max reps

(I would like to point out that this is working but I am just not sure if this is the most efficient plan)
Thanks everyone


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:49 pm 
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I don't remember all the details of this thread. I do remember some vagueness as to your goals. What are you wanting to accomplish with this?

I don't necessarily remember the details of what you were doing before, and don't have the patience to go back, so I'll just comment on this.

2 days upper, 1 day lower seems disproportionate to me. Better than no legs, of course, but still. Why would you devote less time to the part of your body that has the most muscle?

Your days start with 2 or 3 good compound movements. That's good.

On leg day, I'll forgive the lack of squats given the reverse lunges. You might think about working in a second leg day that is based on squats.

I don't know if we made an issue before about crunches, but there are so many better things that you can do for your core, that give less wear and tear on your lumbar spine.

Small thing, but lat pull-downs on Friday, then chins on the weekend--maybe space them more in the week.

That's still a lot of cardio.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:01 pm 
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One other thing--"max set" or "max reps" worries me. Are you taking these sets to failure? If so what kind? I'd urge you not to go beyond "technical failure", that is the point at which you are not lifting with very good form. For big compound lifts, you should be leaving one or two reps "in the tank".

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:03 am 
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Jungledoc wrote:
I don't remember all the details of this thread. I do remember some vagueness as to your goals. What are you wanting to accomplish with this?

I don't necessarily remember the details of what you were doing before, and don't have the patience to go back, so I'll just comment on this.

2 days upper, 1 day lower seems disproportionate to me. Better than no legs, of course, but still. Why would you devote less time to the part of your body that has the most muscle?

Your days start with 2 or 3 good compound movements. That's good.

On leg day, I'll forgive the lack of squats given the reverse lunges. You might think about working in a second leg day that is based on squats.

I don't know if we made an issue before about crunches, but there are so many better things that you can do for your core, that give less wear and tear on your lumbar spine.

Small thing, but lat pull-downs on Friday, then chins on the weekend--maybe space them more in the week.

That's still a lot of cardio.


I thought it made more sense to continue then to start a new one and clog up the forum with needless extra threads. I didnt expect you to go back, I just wanted a quick review.

Goals: Strength and endurance - not size necessarily, but obviously you don't have one without the other.

The cardio is done primarily because I need to become a better runner if I later intend to join the RAMC (a branch of the army) - the amount of cardio also means I don't feel comfortable doing two leg days a week but you are right, I am trying to fit another day in.

I must admit I am looking to phase out the crunches in favour of better alternatives

For the max days, I am doing them to the point where I can no longer do them and maintain proper form - I might not know about shaping workouts but I know how to do the exercises etc.

Thanks Jungledoc, you have been very helpful :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:52 pm 
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medic002 wrote:
Jungledoc wrote:
I must admit I am looking to phase out the crunches in favour of better alternatives


weighted sit ups
planks
pallof presses
dead bugs
birddogs


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:16 am 
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Oscar_Actuary wrote:
medic002 wrote:
Jungledoc wrote:
I must admit I am looking to phase out the crunches in favour of better alternatives


weighted sit ups
planks
pallof presses
dead bugs
birddogs


so would this sort of routine be reasonable for a core workout?

-4x15 pallof presses
-4x standard planks (failure)
-4x side planks (failure)
-4x birddogs(failure)
-4x15 cable twists
-4x15 weighted sit ups

or is this too much for one core workout?

oh, and in response to the "get a good response thread", I am 21 5'8" 72kg in good shape but a bit of a belly. Used to be fat but now much thinner but also alot weaker then I used to be... If that is of use/helps

thanks


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:53 am 
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medic002 wrote:
so would this sort of routine be reasonable for a core workout?

-4x15 pallof presses
-4x standard planks (failure)
-4x side planks (failure)
-4x birddogs(failure)
-4x15 cable twists
-4x15 weighted sit ups

or is this too much for one core workout?

I wouldn't build a workout of core work. It's like having a whole workout for Biceps and triceps alone. Isolated. Don't overwork the core. It's same muscle as any other you're working on. You already have Deadlifts and lunges on the program. They are hard on the core as well. The same goes to pressing and pulling. Core is an important stabilizer on many main lifts. Maybe that's why I wouldn't do 20 sets of core additionally. Put one core exercise of 2-4 sets to 1-3 workouts and that should be alright. Or do just a couple of different kind of core exercises (anti-rotation, anti-extension...) on cardio days for example. 1-3 times a week is what I think would be good, plus main lifts. Some people argue that you might not need any extra core work if you are already doing hardcore stabilization like squats and deadlifts. Obviously I don't agree.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:42 pm 
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so this once or twice a week should be sufficient?

-4x standard planks (failure)
-4x side planks (failure)
-4x15 cable twists

I must admit to hating situps so try to avoid them even though I included them above


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:01 pm 
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medic002 wrote:
so this once or twice a week should be sufficient?

-4x standard planks (failure)
-4x side planks (failure)
-4x15 cable twists

I must admit to hating situps so try to avoid them even though I included them above

4 sets isn't a necessity, but it's not too bad in my eyes. Failure is a harsh word, always. I would rather pick time goals and progress on them (week A, you do planks for 30s, week B for 35-40s. ) That was just an example. Doing 4 sets, each to failure, will leave the form and performance on the last set very very poor. There are lots of different ways. Some people do higher volume and do something like 10 sets of 10s. See what suits you best. I usually do something like 10-40s or 8-12 reps of core exercises.

Cable twists? You mean something like taking the cable and rotating like a sprinkler? That's alright, just make sure the lumbar spine doesn't spin around. It's not made for that. The rotation should be more from thoracic spine, if even from there.
As an example, Cable chops and lifts or landmines have antirotation instead of rotation. Same goes with plank variations (rows with bands or DB's, one armed).

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:13 pm 
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I apologise, I am always so sloppy with terms on here, by failure I mean until I cant maintain proper form - not do horrific things to eke out an extra second or two. I must admit I am pretty weak, only last between 1 min and 1 min 45 for each set but the form, I think, is fine.

I was referring to this http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Obl ... Twist.html

I will look into those ones you mention :) what do you think of the hanging leg twists?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:21 pm 
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medic002 wrote:

Never seen that variation before actually. Looks good, quite similar to landmines. It's important to rotate you hips and whole body, like in that example.


Quote:
I will look into those ones you mention :) what do you think of the hanging leg twists?

I wouldn't. There has been lots of talk about lumbar spine and how to use it, but I'm still in favor of not really stressing the spine with extreme movements. Rotation is one of those. Flexion I don't see "as bad" as rotation. Hanging leg raises are "safer" of the two. But that also with a mind that you won't flex you lower back into extremes, or then you can pair some extensions with it as well to make sure there's movement both ways.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:26 pm 
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ok I will stick with the planks and twists and that should be good, thank you.

Out of interest, how much cardio do you do?


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