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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:31 pm 
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There are lots of examples on the net of upright shoulder external rotation exercises:
(I don't have privileges to post urls)
this site: /WeightExercises/Infraspinatus/CBUprightExternalRotation.html

but not so many of the same movement as an internal rotation:
this site: /WeightExercises/Subscapularis/LVUprightInternalRotation.html

and I can't see any examples of this exercise done with a cable without a supported elbow.

Is there a problem with doing this exercise with an unsupported elbow?
Or am I just googling wrong?

cheers

Mat


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:29 pm 
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I'm only guessing, but I strongly suspect this is a lesser-used used exercise, like Incline shrugs. Lying external rotations are perfectly fine, and who can't find something 2kg or less to hold onto when doing them?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:17 pm 
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I've been doing pretty much every shoulder articulation I can think of with fairly low weights to help rehab my shoulder.

And every movement I can think of has either has a you tube video showing good form, or one saying 'don't do this its dangerous (or both)'.

But I cant see either for the movement like the one described here, just want to make sure I'm not rookie-ing my way to more shoulder damage.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:09 am 
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The Diesel Crew Shoulder Rehab Protocol does have one round of internal rotation exercises as a part of the workout if I recall correctly.

The reason that external rotation exercises have such a dominant role vs. internal rotation exercises is that the rotator cuff muscles are stabilizers more than they are prime movers, so developing them is usually done in an attempt to restore balance to a malfunctioning joint. It's exceedingly rare for someone to have underdeveloped internal rotation, especially considering that so many major muscle groups like the pecs and the lats are also responsible for internal rotation. In contrast, most people's external rotation is underdeveloped, and external rotation is not assisted by anywhere near as many major muscles. (For the same reasons, you're far more likely to see an external rotation imbalance at the hips, and an internal rotation imbalance at the knees).

A much more common issue with internal rotation than lack of strength is lack of range of motion. Shoulders that are overused, especially in motions that resemble pitching (or in my case, throwing left hooks that would shake the very foundation of the human spirit, a penetrating blow to the jawbone of your soul) tend to develop a loss of internal rotation that can lead to impingement syndromes.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:45 am 
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it's quite common for people to have a weak subscapularis, which is an internal rotator.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:27 pm 
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robertscott wrote:
it's quite common for people to have a weak subscapularis, which is an internal rotator.


I've seen lots of people with dysfunctional subscaps, but I've never had a chiropractor or osteopath refer me someone with a weak subscap. But that's exclusively MY mileage.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:04 pm 
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JasonJones wrote:
robertscott wrote:
it's quite common for people to have a weak subscapularis, which is an internal rotator.


I've seen lots of people with dysfunctional subscaps, but I've never had a chiropractor or osteopath refer me someone with a weak subscap. But that's exclusively MY mileage.


yeah it was news to me too. ERic Cressey's written a bit about it


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:24 pm 
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robertscott wrote:
yeah it was news to me too. ERic Cressey's written a bit about it


I've seen him write about the importance of activating the subscap, especially in bench press "fanatics," but have only seen him write about direct strengthening work on the external rotators in both abduction and adduction. BUT I can find a video of him demonstrating a supine internal rotation exercise. I'm not trying to split hairs here, so if you have a link to something that would be amazing and I'd love you forever.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:50 am 
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I'm not sure if you will love me forever, because it sounds like you've found it already, but just in case you didn't:

http://www.ericcressey.com/fixing-the-f ... tabilizers

" Lastly, for some individuals, direct internal rotation training for the subscapularis is warranted, as it’s a commonly injured muscle in bench press fanatics. Over time, the subscapularis will often become dormant – and therefore less effective as a stabilizer of the humeral head – due to all the abuse it takes."

and here

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... rs_part_ii

"The subscapularis gets a bad rap because it's lumped into the internal rotator category, and because most people are far too tight in their "big gun" internal rotators (pecs, lats, anterior delts, and teres major), they assume that the subscapularis is best left alone.

In reality, it's actually a very important depressor and "posterior-puller" of the humeral head, and it is injured and/or shuts down with several common shoulder conditions.

Often, the pectoralis major and latissimus dorsi become the dominant internal rotators of the humerus, leading to shutdown of the subscapularis. Because the subscapularis is responsible for anterior stability of the glenohumeral joint, if it's weak, the humeral head will glide too far forward in the joint capsule. The external rotators have to fire extra to pick up the slack in humeral head depression, so posterior capsule tightness and scarring can result — and that still doesn't fix the humeral anterior glide syndrome.

All these problems combined lead to excessive pressure on the anterior joint capsule with shoulder flexion and horizontal abduction. In this scenario, it's not uncommon to see acromioclavicular joint problems; impingements; pec, lat, and external rotator strains; and even genital warts. Okay, maybe not genital warts, but I just wanted to make sure that you were still paying attention after all that functional anatomy mumbo-jumbo.

So, in short, activation work for the subscapularis is commonly indicated.

I learned the best exercise for this purpose from Syracuse-based physical therapist Michael Hope, who is so brilliant that I often wonder if he's really "The Great Creator" who actually designed the human body so that he'd know everything about it.

But I digress... give the prone internal rotation a try. Position yourself face-down on a training table with your upper arm at a 90-degree angle to your torso, and your elbow flexed to 90 degrees as well. The upper arm should be supported, and the scapula should be depressed. Simply internally rotate the humerus so that the dumbbell moves back toward the hip. If you wrist is flexing more than a few degrees, chances are that you're cheating to achieve the range of motion. If you feel your upper traps firing, you're doing this wrong; you should feel the motion on the undersurface of your scapula — right up into the armpit."

it won't apply to all people with shoulder injuries but it's definitely worth considering. I've added the prone internal rotations into my routine. Too early to tell yet how much it's helping, but quite often my shoulders feel tight and kinda weird under the shoulder blades, and when I do the PIR I feel a burn in the same location, so I think it must be doing something...


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:22 pm 
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robertscott wrote:
I'm not sure if you will love me forever, because it sounds like you've found it already,


Well for whatever interval you find appropriate, then! Thanks for the link.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:31 am 
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robertscott wrote:
I learned the best exercise for this purpose from Syracuse-based physical therapist Michael Hope, who is so brilliant that I often wonder if he's really "The Great Creator" who actually designed the human body so that he'd know everything about it.


LOL. Coffee on monitor.


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