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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:58 pm 
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ephs wrote:
do you recommend doing this exercise with dbs? http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Bac ... erRow.html

Sure, whatever spins your wheels.
All rows are awesome. Unilateral or bilateral. My favourites are wide grip BB rows, pull-ups and Kroc-rows (Or UL DB rows)

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:19 am 
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does anyone have some good exercises for ankle ligaments recovery? atm i'm using a board on a lath for training balance, some light calf training and i did some light weighted squats. today i will rejoin the soccer training, hope the ankle holds!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:36 am 
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Exercises don't help the ligaments recover. Only rest in the shortest position will do that. If you are using the ankle unsupported before that happens, you are just setting the ankle up for further injury. Once the ligaments are healed, then you need to strengthen the muscles that control and stabilize the ankle.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:56 am 
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Jungledoc wrote:
Exercises don't help the ligaments recover. Only rest in the shortest position will do that. If you are using the ankle unsupported before that happens, you are just setting the ankle up for further injury. Once the ligaments are healed, then you need to strengthen the muscles that control and stabilize the ankle.

yeah, that's always my plan, when i have this kind of injury. i rest for 2-3 weeks, then start running and training on the board. when i can run 60 min without problems and have almost no pain on the board, i go back to soccer (maybe after 5-6 weeks), but it often takes a few weeks more til the pain is completely gone. should i maybe wait longer with soccer? i also noticed that the full recovery takes longer if i wear bandages in the first 6 weeks. what do you think?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:45 am 
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So you already have a pattern of repeated ankle injuries? That's pretty good evidence that what you have done to rehab the ankle isn't working real well. The purpose of the "bandage" is to maintain the ligaments in their shortest, tightest position while they heal. If by bandages you just mean an ACE wrap, that's only good to control swelling in the first few days. The ankle needs to be supported with something that prevents either valgus or varus movement, that holds the ankle joint straight. Modern ones allow near-normal flexion and extension, so you can still walk, eventually run, and exercise with them on. The supporter should be worn full-time (except when sleeping) until you are completely pain-free, and then during times of risk, such as sports or when on uneven ground. That's when you should be strengthening the muscles of ankle stability. Using the supporter for months is not unreasonable.

People who have had a pattern of repeated ankle injuries (like you) probably should wear a support for sports for ever.

A sprain is a traumatic stretching or tearing of a ligament. Even a "mild" sprain tears some of the fibers of the ligament. It heals basically by scarring back together. If you are active without protecting the ligament, you repeatedly stretch it through the healing process, which means that it heals longer than it was in the first place. That allows more freedom of movement of the joint from it's normal relationships, and makes it easier to injure it again next time. You need to hold it in it's shortest possible position throughout the healing time. That's what the supporter does during that time. Later the supporter protects the ligament from re-injury.

There are several types of supporters that work well for sports. The best-known is probably the Air Stirrup Training supporter. I've prescribed them for dozens of people (in my past life, not here in PNG), and have known many of them to use them successfully for both training and competition. This one, and other brands control for valgus/varus movements, allow full or near-full flexion/extension, are comfortable and fit into sports shoes.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:56 am 
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Jungledoc wrote:
So you already have a pattern of repeated ankle injuries? That's pretty good evidence that what you have done to rehab the ankle isn't working real well. The purpose of the "bandage" is to maintain the ligaments in their shortest, tightest position while they heal. If by bandages you just mean an ACE wrap, that's only good to control swelling in the first few days. The ankle needs to be supported with something that prevents either valgus or varus movement, that holds the ankle joint straight. Modern ones allow near-normal flexion and extension, so you can still walk, eventually run, and exercise with them on. The supporter should be worn full-time (except when sleeping) until you are completely pain-free, and then during times of risk, such as sports or when on uneven ground. That's when you should be strengthening the muscles of ankle stability. Using the supporter for months is not unreasonable.

People who have had a pattern of repeated ankle injuries (like you) probably should wear a support for sports for ever.

A sprain is a traumatic stretching or tearing of a ligament. Even a "mild" sprain tears some of the fibers of the ligament. It heals basically by scarring back together. If you are active without protecting the ligament, you repeatedly stretch it through the healing process, which means that it heals longer than it was in the first place. That allows more freedom of movement of the joint from it's normal relationships, and makes it easier to injure it again next time. You need to hold it in it's shortest possible position throughout the healing time. That's what the supporter does during that time. Later the supporter protects the ligament from re-injury.

There are several types of supporters that work well for sports. The best-known is probably the Air Stirrup Training supporter. I've prescribed them for dozens of people (in my past life, not here in PNG), and have known many of them to use them successfully for both training and competition. This one, and other brands control for valgus/varus movements, allow full or near-full flexion/extension, are comfortable and fit into sports shoes.


i had only one injury hat occured from overexpanding at the left foot when i was making a cross at soccer. the right ankle was injured two times, but always cause an oponent hit me there with his foot. the ankles were almost perfectly working til the 2nd injury occured. but this time i could run 60 mins without problems after 2 weeks, at the first injury i could only run 15 mins or so. at the first time i was wearing this all the time: http://www.sanitaetshaus-24.de/componen ... 4e30e4.jpg. this time i wore nothing cause i didn't have pain with normal activities. i had a big bruise this time, maybe the pain only came from the bruise, but it lasted 3-4 weeks. is it possible that a bruise feels similar to a distension of the ligaments, cause the swelling is pressing on the ligaments or so?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:21 pm 
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so i took part at the training and didn't have any pain at the ligaments, but after some shots my ankle was hurting more and more like it's bruised again. where does that come from? nobody hit me there or so. should i let my ankle be x-rayed (do you say it like that?) to be safe that no bones are broken? but i think with broken bones in the ankle it wouldn't be possible to run for 60 min without pain? the pain is in the centre of the point where the player hit me 4 weeks ago. there was also some skin injured.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:31 pm 
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ephs wrote:
so i took part at the training and didn't have any pain at the ligaments, but after some shots my ankle was hurting more and more like it's bruised again. where does that come from? nobody hit me there or so. should i let my ankle be x-rayed (do you say it like that?) to be safe that no bones are broken? but i think with broken bones in the ankle it wouldn't be possible to run for 60 min without pain? the pain is in the centre of the point where the player hit me 4 weeks ago. there was also some skin injured.


Go back and read the Doc's e-mail and take it seriously. He just gave you some golden advice that directly addresses your issue.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:04 pm 
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stuward wrote:
ephs wrote:
so i took part at the training and didn't have any pain at the ligaments, but after some shots my ankle was hurting more and more like it's bruised again. where does that come from? nobody hit me there or so. should i let my ankle be x-rayed (do you say it like that?) to be safe that no bones are broken? but i think with broken bones in the ankle it wouldn't be possible to run for 60 min without pain? the pain is in the centre of the point where the player hit me 4 weeks ago. there was also some skin injured.


Go back and read the Doc's e-mail and take it seriously. He just gave you some golden advice that directly addresses your issue.

i take this very seriously, cause he has proven his knowledge in this forum many times. but this time it look more like a bruise injury and not completely at the ligaments. i need more advice :)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:34 am 
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i will consult a doc tommorow. and i found my old bandage and will definitely use it in the next time. some teammates with similar problems have this air stirrup supporter, which we call "air cast" in germany, but i think it's the same. maybe i should make pressure on the doc to give me a prescription for an air stirrup supporter instead of the standard bandage, which i posted a link of in a post above. i re-read your answer many times jungledoc and now know that i should have worn the bandage every time when i had this injury, thx for your advice!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:30 am 
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rupture of ligament. got some olympic style kinesio tape. 4 weeks no soccer. running and weight training allowed.

so, now i got much time to workout. can i do my full body routine 3 times a week? :)

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:49 am 
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The bandage you posted the picture of may be good for controlling swelling, but it won't really support the ligaments. For that, a brace has to keep the heel from tipping from side to side.

I seemed to me that you were saying that just because you could make yourself run on an injured ankle, it must not be injured. Unless you learn to diagnose the sprain yourself, see what a doctor says. Get an x-ray if the doc is suspicious of a fracture (there's something called an avulsion fracture which can seem much like a severe sprain on exam, but can only be confirmed with an x-ray).

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:35 pm 
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Jungledoc wrote:
The bandage you posted the picture of may be good for controlling swelling, but it won't really support the ligaments. For that, a brace has to keep the heel from tipping from side to side.

I seemed to me that you were saying that just because you could make yourself run on an injured ankle, it must not be injured. Unless you learn to diagnose the sprain yourself, see what a doctor says. Get an x-ray if the doc is suspicious of a fracture (there's something called an avulsion fracture which can seem much like a severe sprain on exam, but can only be confirmed with an x-ray).

thanks! on tuesday my ankle will be x-rayed. what do you think about the kinesio-tape (http://www.fort-collinschiropractor.com ... TAnkle.jpg)? is it magic or just a way to get money from me (it cost 15 euro)?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:27 pm 
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I don't know what it is. If it's just tape, you can effectively support a sprained ankle by taping, but it is a specific technique, and a lot of trouble. I learned how to do it years ago, but then they invented the Air Stirrup, which is much easier, quicker, better and can be taken off and put back on whenever you want.

By the way, Air Cast is the company, Air Stirrup is one of their products. There are many imitations both using air and using liquids or gels.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:25 am 
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Jungledoc wrote:
I don't know what it is. If it's just tape, you can effectively support a sprained ankle by taping, but it is a specific technique, and a lot of trouble. I learned how to do it years ago, but then they invented the Air Stirrup, which is much easier, quicker, better and can be taken off and put back on whenever you want.

By the way, Air Cast is the company, Air Stirrup is one of their products. There are many imitations both using air and using liquids or gels.

it's a japanese tape, which should increase the blood flow, but it doesn't have so much scientific evidence. does it make sense, if i put my bandage over the tape, while doing weight training? maybe the ankle is more stabilized then.

ah, okay then in germany it's only air cast, cause nobody knows the word stirrup :D

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