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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:16 am 
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Powerlifting Ninja
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"Explain it to me like I'm a 4 year old."
Denzel Washinton/Philadelphia (movie)

"Proten: How much and how often." Norton
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/protein_ ... quency.pdf

There are two version of this article. This one is the everyday bodybuilding article that explains as you would to a 4 year old. That's the way I like things explained to me. :)

Leucine The Anabolic Trigger

Leucine is arguabley "The King" of amino acids when it comes to muscle growth. Leucine trips the anabolic mTOR (mammalian target of rapamycin) switch.

mTOR

mTOR is a huge deal when it comes to triggering protein synthesis. It's the "light switch" that turns on the muscle making machinery.

How much protein?

Most research states athletes need up to 2 gram of protein per kilo of body weight. That because 7.5-12% of of the protein you consume is leucine.

Consuming 2 g/kg of body weight insures an athlete ingest the right amount of leucine to increase muscle mass. Again, leucine turn on the anabolic machinery protein syntheis process.

Leucine --> Protein Synthesis --> Muscle Growth

What most improtant is the amount of leucine you ingest. Different proteins contain different precentages of leucine.

That means to get the right amount of leucine you may need to eat more of one protein source while you can eat less of another.

As per Norton, 43 gram of Chicken = 28 grams of Whey Protein Isolate. The amount of leucine ingested in these two amount of protein is comparative.

180 Gram of Protein Chicken = 112.5 Grams of Whey Protein Isolate

If we expand Norton's example, that means a 90 kg/198 lb athlete would have to consume 180 gram of Chicken a day or 112.5 Gram of Whey Protein Isolate to obtain the same amount of leucine.

Take Home Message

Consuming protein with higher leucine content means you can eat less.

Consuming lower food that contain leucine mean you need to eat more.

So, make you protein choices wisely.

Another Alternative

Another solution is to purchase leucine and add it to your diet, rather than having to consume 2 gram of protein per kilo of body weight.

For a more indept information on leucines role for increasing muscle mass, read Norton's article.

Kenny Croxdale

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:35 am 
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Kenny Croxdale wrote:
...
Another Alternative

Another solution is to purchase leucine and add it to your diet, rather than having to consume 2 gram of protein per kilo of body weight.
...
Kenny Croxdale[/color]


This is actually the method recommended by Dr Eades in his 6 Week Cure book. However, leucine is very expensive compared to other proteins, about 10 times per gram. It's also found in BCAAs, usually 50%. In both protein and BCAAs it's the leucine you're actually paying for, the rest is along for the ride. Unless you have a reason to want to exclude the other proteins, whole protein is the way to go, from a price point of view.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:14 am 
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Powerlifting Ninja
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stuward wrote:
Kenny Croxdale wrote:
...
Another Alternative

Another solution is to purchase leucine and add it to your diet, rather than having to consume 2 gram of protein per kilo of body weight.
...
Kenny Croxdale[/color]


Quote:
This is actually the method recommended by Dr Eades in his 6 Week Cure book.


Interesting. Ivy also recommended it in his book, Nutrient Timing.

Quote:
However, leucine is very expensive compared to other proteins, about 10 times per gram.


King of Cheap

No one is cheaper than I am.

With that said, let me assure you that Leucine is one of the cheaper amino acids there is.

Leucine 17 cent for 2.4 grams

That based what I just paid for for the large size from musclefeast.com

Whey 44 cents for 24 gram of protein

That is based on the Vitaminshoppe.com whey protein that I purchased.

According to the label, 2.4 gram of the whey is leucine. That equates to the leucine in the whey being about 18 cents.

I understand that you get a lot more amino's in the whey.

Adding Leucine to Your Whey

If you add 2.8 gram of leucine to your whey you end up with 5.2 grams of leucine.

That brings the total cost up to 61 cents.

Doubling Your Whey

Doubling your whey to 48 gram would give you 4.8 grams of leucine.

That would bring the cost up to 88 cents.

Balance Sheet

That means you can get obtain a little more leucine in your protein drink for 27 cents less.

3 Times A Day X 30 Days

If we spike our whey with leucine rather than doubling our whey protein, ingest it 3 times a day X 30 days that means we save $24.30 cents.

Leucine is Cheap

So, leucine is cheaper than you think.


Quote:
It's also found in BCAAs, usually 50%. In both protein and BCAAs it's the leucine you're actually paying for, the rest is along for the ride.


Your Are Right.

When you purchase BCAAs, you spending money you don't need to. That because as you stated, leucine is the work horse of the "Three Amigos".

Quote:
Unless you have a reason to want to exclude the other proteins, whole protein is the way to go, from a price point of view.


"Price Point of View"

If you want to increase your leucine intake, from a price point of view, whole protein is much more expensive.

It is especially expensive when you look at the price of beef, chicken, cheeze, etc.

Do The Math

Don't take my word for it, do the math yourself.

Kenny Croxdale

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:37 am 
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It seems that locally, leucine is more that 10 times the price per gram than simple whey protein. Perhaps it's cheaper in other places. They probably jack up the price on the little bottles and the protein market is more competitive. Searching around the internet, there does seem to be some deals on luciene that would certainly make it cheaper.

Edit: Here's a source where 1000 grams costs under $50. http://www.nutrabio.com/Products/leucin ... E9cxLJlTw4
The same $50 spent on the same web site would get you 5 lbs of protein containing about 250 grams of leucine.

Spent locally, that $50 would buy a much smaller bottle.

I should have shopped around a bit when I was looking for this earlier.

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:45 am 
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Very nicely put. Sums up the importance and effects of leucine tremedously.
I would personally like to add the importance of Glutamine in the whole deal.

Glutamine is a crucial factor on mTor regulation, and particulary BCAA (leucine) uptake and cell volumization. Shortly, to get BCAA's and especially leucine fully working, you need glutamine. And it's commonly known that glutamine doesn't just work in the muscles, it has several important functions in the cells of your digestive system and immune system. Liver also likes to use glutamine for glycogenesis. That, plus the huge stress and metabolic disturbance caused by resistance training makes the reguirements for glutamine even bigger.

Sources:
Amino acid signaling through the mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR) pathway: Role of glutamine and of cell shrinkage.
Bidirectional transport of amino acids regulates mTOR and autophagy.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:17 pm 
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Dub, Glutamine is the most common amino acid found in meat, so you get lots in your everyday diet. Is there evidence that amounts over and above this make any difference, assuming you take a post workout protein shake anyway?

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:38 pm 
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stuward wrote:
Dub, Glutamine is the most common amino acid found in meat, so you get lots in your everyday diet. Is there evidence that amounts over and above this make any difference, assuming you take a post workout protein shake anyway?

Most sources say you need glutamine around 6-20g a day, but it varies so much depending on your daily activities. There are alot of contradicting evidence if huge amounts of glutamine will do any difference: http://www.ergo-log.com/glutaminedoesnothing.html
But there are also lots of evidence (like the ones I linked before), that BCAA + glutamine make the effects even greater than just plain BCAA/Leucine.

But I wouldn't say it is important to add glutamine to your supplementation. I'm trying it myself ATM, 10g post workout (courtesy of John Meadows). But is it necessary if you eat plenty of protein (meat as the most important)? No. But I would maybe suggest it when you want the most bang for your buck when you are under a lot of stress, or having a flu or other sickness.

The main point was that there are other amino acids that we also have to consider when talking about protein intake. You don't have to supplement leucine either if you can handle the meat, but they are options.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:16 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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glutamine has been shown to be awesome for gut health. I'm too lazy to supply links but trust me, they're out there


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