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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:46 am 
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stuward wrote:
One point I disagree on, is the value of low fat milk. To me, the best part of milk is the fat. I drink milk only when I can't get cream, butter or cheese. Low fat and skim milk are processed foods. The milk is dehydrated, defatted and then recombined to get the proper fat %. Whole milk is not. Except for the pateurization and homogenisation, it's still relatively unprocessed. If you are trying to lose fat, you should reduce the milk you eat, not go low/no fat. There is nothing special in milk you can't get from meat, fish, eggs and veg. If you're trying to gain muscle, which is the group that site is really aiming at, there is absolutely no point in low/no fat milk.

I eat well for the bulk of the time. So a serving of whole milk shouldn't affect weight goals. I'll switch to whole milk post-workout as I didn't realize anything below that mark was processed.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:03 pm 
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stuward wrote:
emil3m wrote:
...Stu, you pointed out milk and it reminded me of something I read: milk causes an insulin spike. Is that a myth? Of course, it's all relative and the spike wouldn't be maltodextrin-like. I wonder whether it is significant enough to count or no-different than most foods...


Milk is relatively low GI compared with maltodextrine which is very high, however, the effect post workout seems to be more than the sum of the parts. This article covers the key points: *link*
Most of the studies were done on chocolate milk, but I think it was chosen to be a worst case. There's no reason white milk wouldn't work just as well.


"Milk vs Whey. Some people still believe you need whey post workout. Probably because supplement companies keep pushing it. But studies show slow protein OR a mix of slow & fast protein is superior for lean body mass gains.
Whey is a fast protein. While milk is a combination of slow & fast protein (casein & whey). That's why milk post workout is superior to whey but also to soy milk for lean body mass gains: whey & soy milk are fast digesting proteins."


I usually mix my whey with milk and I drink it pre and post workout. But according to this, milk is slow digesting, whey is fast digesting protein and slow is better for post workout. Should I stick with my mixing or it would be better to drink "milk only" post workout.

Sorry for my bad English.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:13 pm 
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led7x wrote:
I usually mix my whey with milk and I drink it pre and post workout. But according to this, milk is slow digesting, whey is fast digesting protein and slow is better for post workout. Should I stick with my mixing or it would be better to drink "milk only" post workout.

Personally I favor whey protein (fast protein) before the workout, so I get the most out of it before and during my session, and then post workout whey+casein. AKA Whey and milk combination. Milk is slow, whey is fast. Thus causing immediate effects as well as slow, longer duration effects. Which is found the best combo in most studies.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:13 pm 
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The study doesn't say that milk is better than whey, just that it's just as good. Do what works for you. Don't feel that you have to do any specific protocol to get the best gains. No one really knows what "optimal" is in the general sense, and that's even more true when you start looking at what works for a specific individual.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:27 pm 
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Dub wrote:
Personally I favor whey protein (fast protein) before the workout, so I get the most out of it before and during my session

Dub,
Is this necessary or just a habit? On few occasions, I heard that carbs are the focus before a workout and any protein is fine (chicken etc).


Stu,
I've switched from skim to whole and did not gain any fat! So it's a welcome change. Now, the most popular Greek yogurt in NY is Chobani. I've gotten used to the plain one, but its also fat free. I'm not aware of Chobani offered at anything higher than reduced fat (2%). What are your thoughts re: the fact of the processing you were talking about? To me, it seems that this evil can't be avoided as processing is inherent in the making of greek style yogurt.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:38 pm 
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Thanks for clearing things up for me, I'll stick with mixing so far it works good :)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:46 pm 
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emil3m wrote:
Dub,
Is this necessary or just a habit? On few occasions, I heard that carbs are the focus before a workout and any protein is fine (chicken etc).

Just a personal habit. I don't like to eat heavily before working out, especially since I usually workout somewhere around 9-14 o' clock.

But there is science behind it. The reason I take fast whey protein 30-60minutes before a workout is because whey protein causes the highest spike in amino acid levels around 60-90 minute mark after digestion. Casein has almost twice as slow benefits, which makes it better for post workout. Mixing whey with milk has the benefits since milk is both whey and casein.

Meat is also quite fastly absorbing when it comes to food. So it's not a bad idea either. I'd recommend eating a meal 2-4 hours before a workout or so.

And yeah, carbs are important depending of goals. There are arguments on why carbs might not always be the best thing pre-workout, but it works for me and supports my goals.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:19 am 
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emil3m wrote:
Dub wrote:
Personally I favor whey protein (fast protein) before the workout, so I get the most out of it before and during my session

Dub,
Is this necessary or just a habit? On few occasions, I heard that carbs are the focus before a workout and any protein is fine (chicken etc).


Stu,
I've switched from skim to whole and did not gain any fat! So it's a welcome change. Now, the most popular Greek yogurt in NY is Chobani. I've gotten used to the plain one, but its also fat free. I'm not aware of Chobani offered at anything higher than reduced fat (2%). What are your thoughts re: the fact of the processing you were talking about? To me, it seems that this evil can't be avoided as processing is inherent in the making of greek style yogurt.


We don't get Chobani here in Canada yet. It's my understanding that the low-fat version is higher in protein so a lot of people like it as a protein source. As long as they don't add in sugar to compensate for the lack of fat, I wouldn't worry about it. I just checked the web site, it's either no fat or low fat.

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:14 pm 
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led7x wrote:
Sorry for my bad English.

Hey, please don't feel like you need to apologize for your English. Your's is very good. We welcome people from all backgrounds, nationalities and languages. It helps to make this the rich source of information and opinions that it is. So that's going to include some people for whom English is not their first language, or maybe even not their second! Many people from outside N America and the British Isles speak several languages, and speak them pretty well. The rest of us mostly just speak one, and sometimes not all that well! Maybe we should apologize for not being able to have discussions in YOUR first language!

Sometimes we struggle to understand each other. If you say something in English that just doesn't make sense, someone is bound to say "I don't understand", and you can explain, or correct your mistake. Sometimes language mistakes are actually numerous. We have to be careful in pointing these out so that it doesn't seem like we are ridiculing the writer.

If anyone ever wants to ask a question about English, someone will be happy to answer.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:20 am 
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ok :smile:


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