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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:51 am 
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Right, so criminals have guns, and law-abiding citizens are helpless.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:09 am 
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If I'm not mistaken, it was the Nazis who first implemented gun registration in Germany. They began confiscating legally-owned, registered firearms soon after. It had very little to do with crime, although it was originally promoted as a crime control measure.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:12 am 
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Jungledoc wrote:
Right, so criminals have guns, and law-abiding citizens are helpless.


That's not quite true. There are 2 million registered gun owners in Germany, roughly the same number in France and Spain and around 800,000 in the UK. Each of those countries have extremely tight restrictions as to what guns can be bought and who those guns can be sold to. As a result gun deaths by homicide in those countries are significantly lower than those in the US.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:12 pm 
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Proper Knob wrote:
Jungledoc wrote:
Right, so criminals have guns, and law-abiding citizens are helpless.


That's not quite true. There are 2 million registered gun owners in Germany, roughly the same number in France and Spain and around 800,000 in the UK. Each of those countries have extremely tight restrictions as to what guns can be bought and who those guns can be sold to. As a result gun deaths by homicide in those countries are significantly lower than those in the US.

that's the point.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:15 pm 
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Matt Z wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, it was the Nazis who first implemented gun registration in Germany. They began confiscating legally-owned, registered firearms soon after. It had very little to do with crime, although it was originally promoted as a crime control measure.

no, it was invented in 1928, before the nazis came, the nazis just used this law to confiscate the weapons from jews, gypsys and other groups. germans still had the right to buy and use weapons. after the war the allies invented a law to confiscate every weapon in germany.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:09 pm 
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"That's not quite true. There are 2 million registered gun owners in Germany, roughly the same number in France and Spain and around 800,000 in the UK. Each of those countries have extremely tight restrictions as to what guns can be bought and who those guns can be sold to. As a result gun deaths by homicide in those countries are significantly lower than those in the US." - Proper Knob

Yes much of Europe has more restrictive gun laws than the US. The same countries also have lower murder rates. However, can you really say that A caused B? If you look at the murder rate in the UK prior to the modern era of gun control, I think you'll find it was already much lower than that of the US durring the same time period. You'll also likely find that that the rate of gun use (by both criminals and law-abiding people) has always been much lower in the UK. Finally, it might interest you that the rate of violent crime in the US has actually gone down a lot since the early 90s. Can you say the same about the UK?

PS) As long as we're comparing apples to oranges, I could point out that Mexico has very restrictive gun laws, and that it hasn't made Mexico a very safe place to live.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:23 pm 
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"no, it was invented in 1928, before the nazis came, the nazis just used this law to confiscate the weapons from jews, gypsys and other groups. germans still had the right to buy and use weapons." - ephs

Your coment seems to suggest that that German Jews and German Gypsys weren't German, or that that were somehow less German than other Germans, an idea that may offend some people. However, this may just be because I'm American. Americans are a nationality, not an ethnic group.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:28 pm 
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"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!" - Adolf Hitler, 1935

I wonder if German gun registration may have been implemented in stages beginning with specific types of firearms before later being extended to all firearms.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:32 pm 
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I think we may be getting a little off topic. The OP asked about non-lethal self defense options. Perhaps we should continue this discussion on the gun control thread.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:49 pm 
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Matt Z wrote:
"no, it was invented in 1928, before the nazis came, the nazis just used this law to confiscate the weapons from jews, gypsys and other groups. germans still had the right to buy and use weapons." - ephs

Your coment seems to suggest that that German Jews and German Gypsys weren't German, or that that were somehow less German than other Germans, an idea that may offend some people. However, this may just be because I'm American. Americans are a nationality, not an ethnic group.

i just mean the germans, who were seen as germans in the nazi-germany. it's not my opinion that jews etc. were no germans. everybody who has the citizenship from germany is a german in my eyes, no matter which religion and skin color.

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Last edited by ephs on Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:51 pm 
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Matt Z wrote:
"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!" - Adolf Hitler, 1935

I wonder if German gun registration may have been implemented in stages beginning with specific types of firearms before later being extended to all firearms.

that was just a fake from adolf hitler. he just used the laws to unarm the jews etc.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Either way it illustates how a government can use gun control to help oppress it's people. Other examples can be found in the American south durring the Jim Crow period when gun control laws were used to disarm minorities.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:20 pm 
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Matt Z wrote:
Finally, it might interest you that the rate of violent crime in the US has actually gone down a lot since the early 90s. Can you say the same about the UK?


Quick reply as i'm doing my Xmas shopping online. The short answer, yes. Homicides for instance are now around half of what they were 10 years ago.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:58 pm 
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What about other violent crimes?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:32 pm 
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Oh man I really didn't mean to further a gun control debate in this thread. I nor she are gun control advocates. To be honest, she's thoroughly scared of them. It's quite irrational I'll admit, but the thought of guns elicits the same response of snakes and spiders (which of course she's scared of too so I know this from experience). One time we were at a friend's and a guy brought his gun to show me without informing her, and when she saw it she ran to another room. That would be a hard, irrational fear to break (even she'll admit that it is irrational but cannot help it). Probably to do with a gun incident when she was a child. So that is why it is off of the table, not for what this thread is delving into. But for the Europeans criticizing America's love of guns as it equates to crime, the gun ownership rate is relatively high in Canada and Switzerland while the gun violence is relatively low. I think Europeans and Canadians just seem to have a much more relaxed disposition in life for whatever reason, combined with not being saturated by a retarded media machine (whether you are liberal or democrat) that seems to exacerbate the problem. Also plenty of American's seem more willing to shun reason and discipline when it comes to their anger and emotions. Damn now I'm in the debate. Oh well that's all I want to say on that. Moving on...

I have heard pepper spray is not so good due to the possibility the wind will carry it right back on you. Will this happen without gusts? If someone does not have the money or time to dedicate to martial arts training, is there any other time of training that might be of help? Can people really learn good moves for simple protection from a book or dvd? Everybody seems to recommend against a taser that I talk too...I would have this would of got the biggest plus points out of non lethal means. Heh.


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