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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:09 pm 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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"It is a great exercise, just different that the one he's suggesting. As he said, it's more a trap exercise than a rhomboid exercise. It depends on what you're looking for." - stuward

There's also a LOT of lat involvement in Yates Rows. ... Rowing with the elbows in seems to target the lats and traps (upper, middle and lower) more, while rowing with the elbows out is better for romboids (sp?) and rear delts.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:48 pm 
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I had switched to db rows exclusively. And lat pull downs. Then I read how that Matt Z guy does his BB rows, and now I do them every OH Press day. Major moves up. Coupled with what Stu has said, I understand more now. My upper/middle back was getting all the work before. Now, I'm actually understanding where my lats are. Bench is getting better too.
The que to think of your hands as hooks works well for me too
imo, espeically if you do separate delt rows, then the more upright bentover rows make sense


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:04 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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For years I was never really into BB rows. I done them when I started training and then when I started deadlifting, I figured along with squats, too, that my lower back would be taxed too much with the addition of BB rows as well. So I stuck with row variations that weren't "limited" to what the lower back could stabilise.

However last year I done a lot of things that I didn't like the look of. Just because I could. Since I was getting strength "back", I knew it didn't really matter what I did, as long as it was consistent I would improve so I figured it was a good time to try some things out. These included shrugs, higher rep deadlifts, deadlifts with limited/timed rest periods. 3 inch deficit deadlifts (previously I would of said this was too much of a deficit). Dead squats, etc. It's been quite eye opening.

I started training Pendlay rows a few months ago. I really like them!

They're very awkward at first, but once you learn how to lock your legs, hips, and lower back in place, they feel fantastic. It's an exercise that can be done with a lot of aggression. You rip the bar off the floor with everything you have.

I actually first tried these about 2 years ago, and I felt very weak. I struggled to do 5 reps with 60KG and they felt very unnatural. This time around I gave them a fair shot. Put them in my program. I now make 100KG look like 60KG did a few years ago (I weigh 82kg) - and I do them after doing speed and deficit deadlifts. So I believe even more so now that the lower back can handle more than people think, especially if you avoid flexion based movements in your training.

The main reason I wanted to do these is because I used to train with a guy who I seen doing 1 rep with 190KG on this - I want to be that guy that rows more than most can deadlift!

Also, whilst doing these, I dropped DB rows for a few months. When I went back to them I was significantly stronger, I can only credit the pendlay rows for that.

I think it's quite an advanced movement, though. Not for beginners. Although it's early days in my experience with them.

The way I trained them was doing sets of 8, starting at 60KG, and adding weight until I couldn't get 8 reps. After this, I would drop back to 60kg, and do more of a yates row, with underhand grip, and rep out. I started getting 12-15 reps in the rep out, and now can easily get 25-30 reps.

Needless to say I like talking about these, I've not had progress like this on a lift/movement for a while!

KPj

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:55 am 
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today i changed from 45 degrees bb rows to pendlay rows and it was very hard. i chose too much weight for the first working set and had to go down. i think i will even go down more. your post motivates me to stay at pendlay rows, KPj!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:02 pm 
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ephs wrote:
today i changed from 45 degrees bb rows to pendlay rows and it was very hard. i chose too much weight for the first working set and had to go down. i think i will even go down more. your post motivates me to stay at pendlay rows, KPj!


Just keep it light and high reps until you feel good about them. It takes a few sessions (at least).

I just ramped up in sets of 8 starting with a light weight until it felt messy or I couldn't get the reps. One day it will just feel great.

Also, when you get to a heavy weight (relatively speaking), it always feels messier than it is. I would recommend filming yourself, to allow you to connect "feel" with what it actually looks like.

KPj

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:45 pm 
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yes, light weight is a good recommendation, cause pendlay rows are very hard on the lower back. i have to get used to stay tight at this exercise.

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