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 Post subject: Re: Bob's back rehab
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:12 am 
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The fact is that EVERY successful physique athlete trains a bodypart split


Yes but... So does pretty much every idiot in a commercial gym, and, 90% don't get very far very fast. If they get anywhere at all.

I still get the classic question, "back and chest on the same day?". I like to stir the pot and say, "back, chest, shoulders, arms, traps, forearms, and abs in the same day, thanks very much".

In seriousness, i'm not starting a debate. I feel much wiser now. I don't actually think the split matters, I think it's how you apply it.

There's a competing bodybuilder in my gym just now. It's quite good having him around. He stays freaky-lean year round. The guy has veins on his abs. Doesn't believe in allowing his bodyfat to creep beyond 10% in the off season.

I have a friend in the gym, few years younger than me and was always asking my advice. I gave him it through my own, admittedly biased lens - powerlift the big lifts, body build the rest, eat until it's a chore then eat some more. Worry about "detail" when something isn't growing or you start to get too soft/fat. I let him come in on my own training sessions for some free coaching, too, just to help him out.

Now he's being trained by the body builder (I actually nudged him towards this - training friends is not easy).

He's been put BACK on a bodypart split. Never worked before, why would it work now?

If it doesn't work now, I think it'll be for the same reason my approach never worked - consistency, discipline and really-hard-work (he only done what I told him when he trained with me, wouldn't do it on his own). What I told him to do put 4 stone on another friend in less than a year, who attacked it relentlessly.

Interesting anyway. This guy also likes to be innovative with machines - using chest press machines for rows and weird things like that. Anything that gives him a good mind-muscle-connection.

KPj

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 Post subject: Re: Bob's back rehab
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:42 am 
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yeah but most chimps half ass it in the gym, I bring the INTENSITY!

I agree with you that the split is probably the least important important aspect of training, I just decided to see how I get on with the bodypart split for a while. I love upper/lower but fancied a change, and it's nice to be able to get your workout + warmup up done in the space of an hour. Also, no one else on this site is training like this so it'll be interesting to compare results.

The main reason I'm trying the bodypart split is I want to try working in loads of more advanced bodybuilding techniques like pre-exhaustion, rest-pause etc which isn't so easy to do on upper/lower. Last time I tried the bodypart split I was less than impressed, and ended up hurting my shoulder. I'm hoping though that by pre-exhausting my chest with machine flyes first in the workout, and leaving benching til third in the workout, that my shoulders'll be fine. It might suck, it might rock, there's only one way to find out.

I do have slight reservations about only training legs once a week, but having a whole day dedicated to arms and shoulders, plus splitting lateral delts with chest and rear delts with back for a bit of extra shoulder work, should mean that my shoulders FINALLY catch up with my chest.

As for training friends, LOADS of my mates have asked for advice about training and diet. I used to get really technical and write out big long routines complete with detailed exercise descriptions, only for them to give up a couple of weeks later. Now I just tell them to google Starting Strength. I know they'll just go to the gym and half ass it for a couple of weeks on machines anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Bob's back rehab
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:57 am 
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Yeh, I can relate. When I used to do a body part split myself I always loved the feeling of completely destroying 1-2 muscles for an hour or so. My current training program actually has a "bodybuilding day" but it's just a bunch of high rep exercises done to give certain muscles some extra work.

Also, my original training partner, who has since whimped out the quest to lift a house, just does "bodybuilding sh*t" now, as he calls it. Funny thing is he has way too much body fat. Would need to lose about 2-3 stone atleast before abs were visible but, he just trains like that because he enjoys doing it.

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 Post subject: Re: Bob's back rehab
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:17 pm 
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I think quite a lot of the time people pretend they are "lifting like a bodybuilder" because it means they don't have to lift heavy. They should watch this



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 Post subject: Re: Bob's back rehab
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:08 am 
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heavy DBs, but this guy was/is on steroids.

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 Post subject: Re: Bob's back rehab
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:36 am 
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ephs wrote:
heavy DBs, but this guy was/is on steroids.


all the steroids in the world couldn't make you 1% of the man Ronnie was/is.

You would do well to remember that.


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 Post subject: Re: Bob's back rehab
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:50 am 
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how do you measure my and his greatness? i think anyone can lift 1% of the weight he lifts, for example.

who do you think is going to win in a competition full of drug users? it's always the man with the best drugs or the one who takes the most risks to maybe get ill of the $h1t he takes. and not the best one.

srsly, using doping/steroids is like playing soccer with 12 players or riding up mount ventoux with a motorcycle. hello to lance armstrong.

just my 2cents.

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 Post subject: Re: Bob's back rehab
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:02 am 
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ephs wrote:
who do you think is going to win in a competition full of drug users? it's always the man with the best drugs or the one who takes the most risks to maybe get ill of the $h1t he takes. and not the best one.


GTFO of my log with this nonsense. I have never heard anything so wrong in all my days.

If drugs were all it took then everyone who used drugs would be a champion. And just so you know, all the pro bodybuilders use THE SAME DRUGS. Seriously, "the best drugs"? Where did you get that? In fact, don't answer that, you'll only disappoint me further.

All bodybuilders use the same drugs, all bodybuilders train the same way. The guys who win the competition have the best genetics and the best work ethic.

you suck. Kindly, GTFO. You are hearby banished from posting in my journal comments.


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 Post subject: Re: Bob's back rehab
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:10 am 
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lol

no reason to personally offend me...you can still apologize.

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 Post subject: Re: Bob's back rehab
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:39 am 
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robertscott wrote:
ephs wrote:
who do you think is going to win in a competition full of drug users? it's always the man with the best drugs or the one who takes the most risks to maybe get ill of the $h1t he takes. and not the best one.

"the best drugs"? Where did you get that? In fact, don't answer that, you'll only disappoint me further.

i'd like to answer that question, cause you seem to have a naive view of the world on this topic. steroids are further developed every day, scientists are working on changing the molecular structure of steroids to produce better steroids preparation, for example. do you really think that there are no better steroids available than the ones available for almost everyone? it's just a matter of how big your pocket is and how big your connections are. you could easily gain an edge with a more modified steroid preparation.

that's my last post in your journal comments.

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 Post subject: Re: Bob's back rehab
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:24 am 
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Nope. The guy who is on roids and doesn't train hard won't accomplish much. The one who is and does wins.

And Bob is right. The same drugs are pretty much available to everyone who is willing to look for them. There is a finite number of performance enhancing drugs, and so a finite number of combinations. Yeah, new drugs are being developed all the time, but they don't become available all that fast, and there's no super-secret source for such drugs. And new ones are only small increments better than old ones. No wonder drugs.

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 Post subject: Re: Bob's back rehab
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:34 am 
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Yup, I was just going to let it go but I might as well clarify. Don't want people reading my log and being misinformed.

The main bodybuilding steroids that all bodybuilders use have been around for decades. We're talking 50+ years ago. Dianabol and Deca were as popular in Arnold's day as they are now. The only "recent" development is in the 90s growth hormone really took off along with insulin (although that's not to say that GH was never used before then). This has been a mixed bag, as bodybuilders are now MUCH bigger but they have huge, distended guts from all the GH they're using. Slin use has meant that competitors aren't coming in as ripped either (supposedly).

The doc is right in that there are actually very few performance enhancing drugs. Test, tren, deca, EQ, mast, adrol, dbol and var are the most popular (although there are different esters of each, they are essentially the same compound). There's a few others but those are the main ones. The reason people use these, have used these for years, and will always use these is they work. No bodybuilder wants to risk using something that might not work, costing them a competition.

As for super secret advancements and magic new steroids, that's not true, although it's true that people are tinkering with steroid molecules. These compounds are called "pro-hormones" (although really they're just steroids), and are made by people changing branches of a steroid molecule. The reason these are popular is that they are not illegal, and can be bought in supplement shops. For the most part they are garbage and don't work very well, however there are exceptions like superdrol and M1T. The real problem with these pro-hormones is for the most part they are untested, and so the long term effects are not known. AAS, while illegal, have a body of research behind them, and people are aware of the damage they can do to their bodies with them. Pro-hormones, on the other hand, could have all sorts of nasty side-effects that no one will be aware of until it's too late.

So there you go. People are using the same steroids now that they were using in the 50s, and it's unlikely to change anytime soon.

For extra credit, pick up a copy of "Anabolics" by William Llewelyn. That'll explain it all in better than I ever could.


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 Post subject: Re: Bob's back rehab
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:00 am 
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Nice post, quite informative.

I've often wondered about the increasing trend of blocky mid sections in bodybuilding during the last 10-20 years.

A BB in my gym has what looks like a pot belly. It's actually "round", not just a "thick" midsection that you see on a lot of the leaner heavyweight PL's and strongmen. Anyway, this guy with a t-shirt on looks like he has a pot belly - clients of mine have actually said things like, "he has a bit of a gut on him". However, his abs are so lean they have veins. Guy is ripped!

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 Post subject: Re: Bob's back rehab
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:47 am 
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i never said that you can grow into hulk just by only taking a drug. it's def. hard work that coleman etc. are doing, but it would be a much greater accomplishment without taking drugs. and these guys are also no bill kazmaiers.

i'm sure that some bodybuilders have access to better modified steroids than others. and this could lead to a scenario, where the 2nd best bodybuilder is stronger, fitter, leaner, more definied or whatever than the best bodybuilder, but then the 2nd best gains a little edge with his preparat and is going to be the winner in all competitions against the normally better guy. and i think that is fake then. but i know, i can't prove that fact, cause no bodybuilder would ever tell anyone that they have a better preparation, then everybody else would also try to get it.
,

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 Post subject: Re: Bob's back rehab
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:44 pm 
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ephs wrote:
i never said that you can grow into hulk just by only taking a drug. it's def. hard work that coleman etc. are doing, but it would be a much greater accomplishment without taking drugs. and these guys are also no bill kazmaiers.

i'm sure that some bodybuilders have access to better modified steroids than others. and this could lead to a scenario, where the 2nd best bodybuilder is stronger, fitter, leaner, more definied or whatever than the best bodybuilder, but then the 2nd best gains a little edge with his preparat and is going to be the winner in all competitions against the normally better guy. and i think that is fake then. but i know, i can't prove that fact, cause no bodybuilder would ever tell anyone that they have a better preparation, then everybody else would also try to get it.
,


*sigh*

the fact is, you know NOTHING about the topic and are just flapping your gums. Also, if you think that there are natural bodybuilders competing against juiced BBers, you're crazy. In the untested feds EVERYONE is using.

Also Bill Kazmaier used steroids. He has admitted this.

Anyway, you're banished from this log, go post crap about stuff you know nothing about elsewhere. The grown ups are talking.


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