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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:14 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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Colonial/ Early American militias were formed as needed and often disbanded in peacetime, so "well regulated" definately refers to the militia and not the guns.

Even then, no one here is suggesting that we shouldn't have any laws regulating firearms, only that those laws can't infringe on the rights of law abiding citizens.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:01 am 
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Matt, the militias were put together to form the national guard in 1908 if I remember my history correctly. When was the last time government went around buying back people's stuff? What about the search and seizure provision? Sometimes it doesn't fly even when there are immanent domain laws. We also are not dealing with Redcoats, and neither were the authors of the constitution, it was written a few years after the war ended. All they wanted to do was have a militia to stop anyone from invading.

I don't think most Americans would be able to do anything in a war. Not to mention the US outspends everyone else combined on military. We have enough firepower to destroy the world many times over, and that doesn't even count the nuclear arsenal. Not to mention most countries are too civilized for that anyway. Most of the ones who aren't know they can only push so far. The only exception is North Korea. I think insanity runs in the Il family. As soon as they become a real threat, I am sure we will bomb them back to the stone age though.

Gun rights really haven't been infringed at all. That's more than we can say for other rights. Privacy and due process are practically gone, and freedom of speech isn't doing so well. Religious freedom died in the 1950's and just kept getting worse. So I think those areas are more of a cause for concern.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:01 pm 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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"Matt, the militias were put together to form the national guard in 1908 if I remember my history correctly." - Ironman

Birds evolved from dinosaurs. That doesn't mean a sparrow has much in common with a T. rex.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:13 pm 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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"When was the last time government went around buying back people's stuff? What about the search and seizure provision? Sometimes it doesn't fly even when there are immanent domain laws." - Ironman

It's fairly common for governments to seize private land for public works projects like road construction. Meanwhile, the Supreme Court ruled recently that governments can even use immanent domain laws to seize property for PRIVATE projects, if they deem that these projects are in the best interest of the community. This really bothers me, since the potential for abuse and corruption is HUGE.

There was also talk in NY recently about the possibility of a buy-back program for "Assault weapons".


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:21 pm 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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"We also are not dealing with Redcoats, and neither were the authors of the constitution, it was written a few years after the war ended. All they wanted to do was have a militia to stop anyone from invading." - Ironman

The founding fathers were very suspicious of a strong federal government, and feared it might use the same oppressive tactics as the Brittish (which were still fresh in their collective memory).

Also, they DID need to deal with Redcoats again in 1812.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:26 pm 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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"I don't think most Americans would be able to do anything in a war." - Ironman

Where do you think our soldiers, sailers, marines and airmen come from? They're not Hessians.

If our military can train guerilla forces overseas, why can't they do the same here?


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:29 pm 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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"Not to mention the US outspends everyone else combined on military. We have enough firepower to destroy the world many times over, and that doesn't even count the nuclear arsenal. Not to mention most countries are too civilized for that anyway. Most of the ones who aren't know they can only push so far. The only exception is North Korea. I think insanity runs in the Il family. As soon as they become a real threat, I am sure we will bomb them back to the stone age though." - Ironman

I think you misunderstood my point. Any future American dictator would almost certainly come from within ... Perhaps a president or general seizing power in a time of crisis.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:33 pm 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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"Gun rights really haven't been infringed at all. That's more than we can say for other rights. Privacy and due process are practically gone, and freedom of speech isn't doing so well. Religious freedom died in the 1950's and just kept getting worse. So I think those areas are more of a cause for concern." - Ironman

A) Not for lack of trying.
B) That depends a great deal on where you live. Perhaps you're unfamiliar with DCs gun laws.
C) I'm not okay with giving up any of my constitutional rights.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:00 pm 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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Anyone else hear Jesse Jackson's comments on shooting down planes and blowing up railroads?


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:07 pm 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02 ... -the-door/

Wow! ... If I didn't know better, I'd think he was kidding.


Last edited by Matt Z on Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:13 pm 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/artic ... sable.aspx

Here's Biden's earlier advice.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:24 pm 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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These two are really offensive.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... porters-g/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... sheriffs-/


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:17 pm 
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Matt Z wrote:


Sad. As I said earlier, if you're not prepared to admit you want to fundamentally alter the fabric of the United States, you're not prepared to be intellectually honest about gun control. As long as both sides continue to try to shrilly appeal to their base a national conversation is going to be impossible.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:55 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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Why would I want to fundamentally alter the fabric of the United States? My country isn't perfect, but overall I like the way we do things. I especially like having a Bill of Rights. I wouldn't want to live in a country where basic freedoms are treated like privileges and subject to the discretion of whichever dishonest/corrupt career politician happens to be in control at the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Control
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:26 pm 
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Matt Z wrote:
Why would I want to fundamentally alter the fabric of the United States? My country isn't perfect, but overall I like the way we do things. I especially like having a Bill of Rights. I wouldn't want to live in a country where basic freedoms are treated like privileges and subject to the discretion of whichever dishonest/corrupt career politician happens to be in control at the time.


Not you, the other side of the aisle. If you're promoting gun control, you've got to be willing to accept that you want to change fundamental aspects of the USA, like the Bill of Rights.

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don't you know there ain't no devil
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