ExRx.net

Exercise Prescription on the Net
It is currently Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:45 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:19 pm 
Offline
Apprentice
Apprentice
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:45 pm
Posts: 196
First of all, hi all! It's been a long time! Grad school, licensing, and work caught up with me. Haven't stopped lifting though.
Quickly about my program. M/W/F following an ABA BAB rotation.
A:
5x5 squat
4x6 bench
4x6 barbell row
superset: lateral raise+hanging leg raise, weighted dip+curl

B:
5x5 deadlift
4x6 standing press
4x6 weighted chin (neutral grip, other grips bother the right bicep)
superset: rear-delt DB row+incline crunch, weighted dip+curl

I'm having trouble with the bent-over barbell row. I reached 135lb with good form and stopped there. Even at 135lb, I feel that form is compromised particularly because the position I have to hold. It feels TONS less like a horizontal pull exercise and more like a-little-bit-of-everything exercise compared to a row on a pulley system. My half-rack+pulley was sold in favor of a full-rack with new equipment.

The simplest solution is to just do weighted chins on both days. Would that neglect back development in absence of a horizontal pull?

Thanks!

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:34 pm 
Offline
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Posts: 6391
Location: Halifax, NS
Wide grip pullups with the sternum touching the bar should give you similar back stimulus to horizontal rows. Of course, they're hard, but if you're doing weighted pull ups now, it should be OK. http://mindsetfitness.net/wp-content/up ... ullups.jpg

http://www.workoutroutinewarehouse.com/ ... n-ups.html

_________________
Stu Ward
_________________
Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
_________________
Thanks TimD


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:54 pm 
Offline
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity

Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:19 pm
Posts: 4396
Location: Pennsylvania
Are you pulling the barbell to your chest or your waist?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:33 pm 
Offline
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:20 pm
Posts: 4419
Good to see you posting again Emil3m

I wouldn't drop the horizontal pull, it's a pretty important movement for back strength and shoulder health.

Dumbell rows are my favourite row, however if you work out at home you might struggle to get enough weight. Here's some things you could try if all you have is a barbell:

- Meadows Rows http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY4YjAHcWrw (you don't need the landmine thing, just put the bar in the corner
- one arm barbell rows http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExuDK5iWKM8 it's pretty similar to the Meadows row except for the angle you pull at.

play about with those and see if you can feel those a bit better. I find it's just too easy to cheat with ordinary barbell rows.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:20 pm 
Offline
Apprentice
Apprentice
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:45 pm
Posts: 196
Stuward, for a long time now I've had an issue doing chins with a pronated or supinated grip. Will a neutral grip work just as well? I have a feeling I won't be able to complete enough decent reps.

Matt, bar makes contact sort of in between (below the chest). Slightly wider than should-width grip.

Robert, good to see you! Few things.
- I have Quicklocks by Ironmaster (I swear by them--solid as a rock!). They go up to 120lb (there's a cool youtube clip of Lee Priest working with the 120lb Quicklocks). Any nuances re: form and what to look out for to get the most out of the DB row?

- Very interesting row variations. Is it "good form" in the clips? Because what I see is similar to my problem. With the heavy bent-over row, I'm so focused on balance, lumbar, and neck (in neutral) that for the last rep or two I simply jerk it up (ala 1st clip). Also, I think my biceps simply give as they are under constant tension in a way that feels more tolling compared to a cable row.
I'm not sure about this point: All that jumping, jerking, and shortening the ROM (back goes up with the weight?) feels like cheating, no? Cable rows are dynamic, so there is inertia in play as well, but they still never felt like cheating. Maybe I'm missing something.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:53 pm 
Offline
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity

Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:19 pm
Posts: 4396
Location: Pennsylvania
You could try standing at a 45-degree angle and pulling the bar to your waist so that the bar travels from the tops of your knees to your hips brushing your quads the whole way. You can do these overhand or underhand, The underhand variation is often referred to as a Yates Row.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:18 am 
Offline
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Posts: 6391
Location: Halifax, NS
emil3m wrote:
Stuward, for a long time now I've had an issue doing chins with a pronated or supinated grip. Will a neutral grip work just as well? I have a feeling I won't be able to complete enough decent reps....


Neutral grip will tuck in your elbows and you wouldn't get the same movement. It's only in a wide grip, you will get the shoulder blades coming together (scapular retraction). The row variations that Robert and Matt are talking about will be better.

_________________
Stu Ward
_________________
Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
_________________
Thanks TimD


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:49 am 
Offline
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:20 pm
Posts: 4419
the videos I posted wouldn't necessarily be described as textbook form, however very few bodybuilders really use textbook form on things like rows. You'll notice the guy in the video braces himself against his knee, so the jerk he's doing is more lower back friendly than if it was just a regular barbell row.

as for the dumbell row, just make sure you have a good arch in your back when you're doing them. If you let your upper back cave over each rep you do will actually reinforce bad posture, which is the exact opposite of what you want. So just remember: back arched, and really concentrate on pulling your shoulderblade back and down.

one last tip, if you're feeling your rows in your biceps, concentrate on leading the movement with your elbows. Your biceps are just along for the ride. If that doesn't help (it should) then try a thumbless grip.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:41 am 
Offline
Associate Member
Associate Member

Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:40 pm
Posts: 330
Location: Finland
Slight jerk is fine as long as you pull your shoulders back and control the weight down. Thats about it :)

As for alternatives:

Hammer Strength Row machine: theres isnt really any better options when you want to train lats, traps, arms equally. Takes the low back almost completely out of the picture and arms are usually worked individually so it will balance out left/right.

Power Clean/Hang Power Clean: Stop worrying just lift and profit-exercise. Should be in every full body routine out there.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:25 am 
Offline
Apprentice
Apprentice
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:45 pm
Posts: 196
I would love to do Hammer Strength Rows and already found a decent machine to buy. For now, per Robert's suggestion, I would rather save the money and take advantage of my rather heavy DBs.

For anyone interested, this article puts DB rows on a pedestal as compound lift royalty! (link credit: Robert)
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... mbbell_row

As to dynamic lifts--not a big fan. I spent a pretty penny on a stiff powerlifting bar and I simply enjoy static work a lot more.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:44 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:17 pm
Posts: 618
Location: Ostenfelde (GER)
i was also stalling at standard BB rows some months ago. then i switched to Pendlay Rows (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlRrIsoDpKg) and never really stalled again. did you try those? very simple, but effective.

_________________
"his hands can't hit what his eyes can't see" - muhammad ali


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 


All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group